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Veroni
7/15/2012 12:17:05 AM


Status: Student Body President
Not getting it

What am I doing wrong on this site? I am not doing good in the contests at all and Im not saying that I am great or anything, but some of the ones ahead of me in competitions are not that good in terms of skills. I dont know if my chops fit in here. I am really trying to understand it. So any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Veronica
Comments: 135
Contest Entries: 57
The divorce rate of my socks is astonishing!
Laredog
Independents
7/15/2012 12:45:22 AM


Status: Speech Writer

On 7/15/2012 12:17:05 AM, Veroni said:
What am I doing wrong on this site? I am not doing good in the contests at all and Im not saying that I am great or anything, but some of the ones ahead of me in competitions are not that good in terms of skills. I dont know if my chops fit in here. I am really trying to understand it. So any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Veronica



Be careful: Some of these people do not like this line of questioning. If you really care about the group, you have to just play "nice" as one person put it and keep trying.
Some day, maybe, you will get into the club, click, or whatever it is and your art will win. Good luck.
Since all the people turned ugly toward me and my questions, I just create the art for fun and no longer care how the art finishes.
It is the art that counts.... not the system. Keep creating.
Comments: 239
Contest Entries: 111
Laredog "Gone Fishing"

Veroni
Independents
7/15/2012 1:16:27 AM


Status: Student Body President



Be careful: Some of these people do not like this line of questioning. If you really care about the group, you have to just play "nice" as one person put it and keep trying.
Some day, maybe, you will get into the club, click, or whatever it is and your art will win. Good luck.
Since all the people turned ugly toward me and my questions, I just create the art for fun and no longer care how the art finishes.
It is the art that counts.... not the system. Keep creating.



Thanks very much for your reply and for the heads up. I dont really care if anyone likes my question or not though. If I am looked down upon because I dont get how this site works and ask a simple question then maybe I dont belong here. So far no one has said anything wrong about my question, so we'll see. I simply wanted to voice my opinion on how I can make my work more site friendly. I am not trying to get into any "club" or win any contests, I just dont understand how some of the chops do win against very good ones. For example, in The Old Bridge contest, number 3 winner should have won or beaten number two. It seems like you can put a photo of obama on anything and win over very good entries. I am just trying to understand how people think here.



[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 1:16:29 AM]
Comments: 135
Contest Entries: 57
The divorce rate of my socks is astonishing!

AzureSky
Independents
7/15/2012 3:51:33 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 7/15/2012 12:17:05 AM, Veroni said:
What am I doing wrong on this site? I am not doing good in the contests at all and Im not saying that I am great or anything, but some of the ones ahead of me in competitions are not that good in terms of skills. I dont know if my chops fit in here. I am really trying to understand it. So any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Veronica



Welcome to FN, Veroni. Please don't worry, Your last two chops were in the top ten and 8 out of 10 of your chops have been Jury picks. This means your work has been acknowledged by experts. I thought your Saturday night Fever was impressive.

Some of your lower scoring entries were less sharp and clear.
You need to pay attention to lighting, clean cutting out and colour. Some are a little over saturated.

When you first come here and work hard on an entry, only to find it doesn't score as well as you hoped, it is easy to get disheartened and angry.

It is a good idea to go to the Hall of fame and examine the work of choppers who win a lot of trophies. Some are not chopping much now as they have gone on to do other things like being jurors and admins. Others are too busy working full time as artists.

PMandrake, RickyTrek, PixJockey, AzRainman, Preemeenie, Sunshin3, Chili and pcrdds are a few names of the top of my head. It is worth studying their chops as they produce great work.

Many of us work away for years without winning. To get in the top ten and get a gold star is an achievement in itself. The main thing is to keep at it and not worry about winning.

You have the ability and the ideas, so it won't be long before you feel more at ease here and get to know what is popular. Also things go in and out of fashion.

For a while it was caricatures, then fantasy, realism was a phase for a time, politics tend to be popular during election time. It is very important to read the contest directions carefully, you will get a lower score if you don't.

Concentrate on what you know you can do well, before branching out. Polish up your skills because you are competing with world class choppers many are professionals.

Don't let that put you off though. Hard worth and persistence do pay off in the end. Above all produce work you are happy with. Some of the Freak Show entries have been worked on for weeks.

Please don't give up at the first hurdle Veroni.

AzureSky

I forgot to add Salis2006, MarksDesign and Macwithfries produce awesome work.








[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 4:03:10 AM]
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

macwithfries
Independents
7/15/2012 3:52:27 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Hi Veroni. Your entries have been great and you have pretty clean PS skills (loved your Bigfoot entries...lol)

People vote on a number of things in regards to an entry. They might vote a little higher on some that haven't been done perfectly because of the idea or "funny" factor. They might vote lower on an entry that has been done cleanly but might not have a stand out idea attached to it.

Everybody here probably votes a little differently to one another....but when the majority votes are pulled together, the entries usually end up in the right places at the end of the contest.

The Photoshop skill factor is always a part of the voting, but there are other factors that influence the votes too. (unique idea, humor, how well an entry fits a contest theme or news item etc etc)

I would like to add that there isn't any "club" here (as alluded to by a previous poster) You enter a contest, you have the same chance of winning as anyone else in the contest And you are most certainly not looked down on for asking a question


***and just editing to add that Azure's post above mine was spot on***


[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 3:54:38 AM]
Comments: 5844
Contest Entries: 230

NewsMaster
Independents
7/15/2012 5:40:58 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Veroni,
I've looked at your chops and see you are a skilled chopper. Often it's hard to win in the advanced section because many skilled choppers compete against each other. However with enough practice, you should have your first trophy soon.
My personal favorite one of your chops so far is this one.
I would like to second Macwithfries words and say that there's no "special club" here. People do vote on chops' merits, not on "members".

May I also advise you to enter Apprentice contests too - they are on the front page right below the active Advanced contests (right column, lower part). Anyone who has less than 5 golden trophies is eligible to enter apprentice contests.

[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 5:40:29 AM]
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

AzureSky
Independents
7/15/2012 9:18:31 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
This one is my favourite. As Newsy says there are the apprentice contests. A lot of people enter both if they haven't got 5 trophies. It is a good place to try out techniques.

Saturday Night Big Foot
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

AzureSky
Independents
7/15/2012 9:19:23 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Also voters don't know who you are until after the contest.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

vicspa
Independents
7/15/2012 9:51:59 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
AzureSky, says

"Also voters don't know who you are until after the contest."

We may not know, but I have read on this forum that the moderators do know who enters these contests, and having high Karma votes can control who wins.

Can this be true????

By the way Veroni, hang in there.

[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 9:57:57 AM]

[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 9:59:14 AM]
Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

macwithfries
Independents
7/15/2012 10:16:31 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
The admins are the only ones who can see who does what (not the jurors)....but in saying that, we can vote "without seeing".

Obviously, for the running of the site, the admins have to be able to see what's going on.....in order to fix problems that may arise (like moving entries that have been uploaded to the wrong contest, letting people know when they have to edit an entry etc) which is the same on any similar websites.

Nobody "controls" who wins....and the system actually works better if everyone who enters votes (and others who don't enter also), and vote fairly in order to increase their voting karma.

The current admins rarely (if at all) enter themselves, have no affiliation or biases with any members, and their main "interest" is to keep the contests running fairly.....there is nothing to gained by doing anything other than that.
Comments: 5844
Contest Entries: 230

Laredog
Independents
7/15/2012 11:24:14 AM


Status: Speech Writer
If Vlad says there is no favoritism, then ok. Let's hope it never plays a part in the Admin's voting. I know you see me as trouble. But Vicspa is right.... knowing who's art it is CAN play a role in votes. If they say it doesn't happen, we have to trust them in that.
But why then can't you Admins be eaqual in Karma? Why do you have to keep 300, when the rest of us top out at 200 (if lucky). Your Karma of (1) Veroni basically means your vote doesn't count. You will have to get it up in order for your own vote to matter...and it will NEVER count as much as the Admins do.
That's all I was saying before. And no offense meant... it is true.
Your work is good Veroni.... you will win...someday.
Comments: 239
Contest Entries: 111
Laredog "Gone Fishing"

Malcolmxy
Independents
7/15/2012 12:24:19 PM


Status: Attorney General

On 7/15/2012 9:19:23 AM, AzureSky said:
Also voters don't know who you are until after the contest.



Except in the cases where people know who you are before the contest ends.

I can pick vicspa out now, before the reveal, and that chick who makes glowy bunnies and puppies and random other things that make me revisit what I had for breakfast after I see them.

Don't let the "secrecy" fool ya. People know who has done entries beforehand plenty.

I didn't look at your stuff because if newsie and mac say you got skillz, you got skillz.

Though, I don't wanna hear anymore talk of them two controlling the outcome of these votes. While it's impossible to be 100% impartial, no one has shown that there is even an appearance of impropriety by them two, and until one can do that, there needs to be less accusation and more STFUin. (I know you were just relaying somethin' you read, vicspa...just sayin'.)
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

NewsMaster
Independents
7/15/2012 12:57:16 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 7/15/2012 11:24:14 AM, Laredog said:
why then can't you Admins be eaqual in Karma? Why do you have to keep 300, when the rest of us top out at 200 (if lucky).


Admins do not have fixed karma. While the max is 300 for admins, they can lose karma like anyone else.
Here's the max karma levels table:
Members who don't have any trophies: 100
Members who have at least 1 trophy: 200
Jurors & Admins: 300

Admins and jurors are people who have been on the site for years, and have shown excellent voting and chopping levels. Given that, I think it's reasonable that they are honored with extra karma (which is only 50% higher than the karma of members with trophies).
Years ago we had the same karma for all the members, even n00bs who just joined. Voting was a mess then. Any new member who just joined and could not tell a good chop from a bad one could easily ruin the scores of any entries. Members were furious to see the scores ruined like than, especially after they worked for hours on their entries. Surely, everyone has different tastes on the site, but on average, better chops get higher votes, that's why they win. Not because there's some hidden club of voters that pump up the scores of their members.


[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 1:01:39 PM]
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

NewsMaster
Independents
7/15/2012 1:08:13 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
But seriously, this thread has been turned/hijacked into "what's wrong with voting" kind of thread again. And at such angle the discussion can go on forever. Threads of such kind have been posted several times in the past, where the same questions are discussed again and again. You can search for "karma" or "voting" in the General Forum and read them if you wish.

[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 1:09:25 PM]
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

preemiememe
Democrats
7/15/2012 1:19:58 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 7/15/2012 12:17:05 AM, Veroni said:
What am I doing wrong on this site? I am not doing good in the contests at all and Im not saying that I am great or anything, but some of the ones ahead of me in competitions are not that good in terms of skills. I dont know if my chops fit in here. I am really trying to understand it. So any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Veronica



Veronica dont worry your not doing anything wrong in fact your work is terrific and shows great skills and imagination. There are trends on the site like at time we all love doing smoke or fire or morphing .I guess we all bond and start to think alike!!!,,lol now thats scary!!
The site has really terrific artists and we are all up against each other,but with saying that .. I know sooo many artist that will help each other learn to be even better.
I learned 99% of everything I know from just observing different artists on this site ,, its a wonderful place to excel. dont get discouraged
Comments: 7611
Contest Entries: 1033
"Sheet or get off the pot"

Veroni
Independents
7/15/2012 4:27:44 PM


Status: Student Body President
Thanks to everyone who commented on my question. Like I said, Im not here having a tantrum because I dont win contests, I just didnt understand why some of the entries were winning. I guess since I have spent most of my chop time on Deviant Art I am more used to serious/not funny art. I also experienced woth 1000 site and I found out that the site was really just not for me. I did win 2 contests on there but found out it was more of a popularity contest than anything else. I have gone through your profiles and seen your chops and was impressed by them! I guess I need to get more silly on here or put some more LOL into my chops to stand out. I need to get used to that. I have been putting subtle humor into my work, I think I need to be more Flamboyant!

As for voting, yeah my karma level is low because I have not been active on here at all. It was only recently that I started to play here. I keep my voting impartial and am not one of those people that will vote everything low to get my entry up. I am able to vote someone high who chopped something better than my entry. There are alot of talented artists on here and I guess I will find out how things flow here soon enough.

Thanks again to all of you! Have a great day!

[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 4:28:03 PM]
Comments: 135
Contest Entries: 57
The divorce rate of my socks is astonishing!

AzureSky
Independents
7/15/2012 4:53:52 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 7/15/2012 4:27:44 PM, Veroni said:
Thanks to everyone who commented on my question. Like I said, Im not here having a tantrum because I dont win contests, I just didnt understand why some of the entries were winning. I guess since I have spent most of my chop time on Deviant Art I am more used to serious/not funny art. I also experienced woth 1000 site and I found out that the site was really just not for me. I did win 2 contests on there but found out it was more of a popularity contest than anything else. I have gone through your profiles and seen your chops and was impressed by them! I guess I need to get more silly on here or put some more LOL into my chops to stand out. I need to get used to that. I have been putting subtle humor into my work, I think I need to be more Flamboyant!

As for voting, yeah my karma level is low because I have not been active on here at all. It was only recently that I started to play here. I keep my voting impartial and am not one of those people that will vote everything low to get my entry up. I am able to vote someone high who chopped something better than my entry. There are alot of talented artists on here and I guess I will find out how things flow here soon enough.

Thanks again to all of you! Have a great day!




It is good idea to study the vote history for finished contests to give you an idea, people who vote low, 5 or less run the risk of losing karma. The standard here is very high much of the time.

Many chops are worthy of 7,8,9 and occasionally 10.

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

vicspa
Independents
7/15/2012 5:01:11 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
Thanks Newasmaster for clarifying some points on the voting, I have a tendency to not read rules and regs, i'd rather spend the time chopping. Good to have some faith restored concerning the voting, I did think it was skewed and controlled by certain "clicks". I do hope the jurors and admins play it fair.
Please answer this scenario for me, two entries are up for 1st and second, one gets 199, 1 karma voters, the other gets 1 vote from someone with 200 karma. Does the ONE with 200 win???

Malcom, you said you can now pick out my chops, I'm curious, really curious what is giving it away??? Please fill me in. I like to think that I'm like a chameleon, ever changing, or to say it better, like dog doodoo, kinda all over the place. And yes, I'm here a short time but I can now pick out the work of quite a few people, but I only judge on photoshop ability as I see it, and don't care how many times Obama appears, if it's not chopped well, he gets a low vote. I have given a 9 but not a 10 yet, waiting for that perfect AZRainman or Pike chop (lol)

So to get back to you Veroni, keep chopping, and hang in there I was close to getting out, but I have this addiction you see, and I did have a few wins lately. See ya in the competition.


[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 5:09:07 PM]
Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

Veroni
Independents
7/15/2012 5:08:11 PM


Status: Student Body President

On 7/15/2012 4:53:52 PM, AzureSky said:

On 7/15/2012 4:27:44 PM, Veroni said:
Thanks to everyone who commented on my question. Like I said, Im not here having a tantrum because I dont win contests, I just didnt understand why some of the entries were winning. I guess since I have spent most of my chop time on Deviant Art I am more used to serious/not funny art. I also experienced woth 1000 site and I found out that the site was really just not for me. I did win 2 contests on there but found out it was more of a popularity contest than anything else. I have gone through your profiles and seen your chops and was impressed by them! I guess I need to get more silly on here or put some more LOL into my chops to stand out. I need to get used to that. I have been putting subtle humor into my work, I think I need to be more Flamboyant!

As for voting, yeah my karma level is low because I have not been active on here at all. It was only recently that I started to play here. I keep my voting impartial and am not one of those people that will vote everything low to get my entry up. I am able to vote someone high who chopped something better than my entry. There are alot of talented artists on here and I guess I will find out how things flow here soon enough.

Thanks again to all of you! Have a great day!




It is good idea to study the vote history for finished contests to give you an idea, people who vote low, 5 or less run the risk of losing karma. The standard here is very high much of the time.

Many chops are worthy of 7,8,9 and occasionally 10.




I am in the process of doing just that!

I also have to go back and read vote rules because I thought I was voting ok, but turns out I am more on the low side if 5 is considered low. My average if it is a decent entry is about 5/6 everything over a 7 to me is great. I have only given 2 tens. They were amazing entries! Thanks again for the heads up about voting....I will vote accordingly.
Comments: 135
Contest Entries: 57
The divorce rate of my socks is astonishing!

Veroni
Independents
7/15/2012 5:11:36 PM


Status: Student Body President

On 7/15/2012 5:01:11 PM, vicspa said:
Thanks Newasmaster for clarifying some points on the voting, I have a tendency to not read rules and regs, i'd rather spend the time chopping. Good to have some faith restored concerning the voting, I did think it was skewed and controlled by certain "clicks".
Please answer this scenario for me, two entries are up for 1st and second, one gets 199, 1 karma voters, the other gets 1 vote from someone with 200 karma. Does the ONE with 200 win???

Malcom, you said you can now pick out my chops, I'm curious, really curious what is giving it away??? Please fill me in. I like to think that I'm like a chameleon, ever changing, or to say it better, like dog doodoo, kinda all over the place. And yes, I'm here a short time but I can now pick out the work of quite a few people, but I only judge on photoshop ability as I see it, and don't care how many times Obama appears, if it's not chopped well, he gets a low vote. I have given a 9 but not a 10 yet, waiting for that perfect AZRainman or Pike chop (lol)

So to get back to you Veroni, keep chopping, and hang in there I was close to getting out, but I have this addiction you see, and I did have a few wins lately. See ya in the competition.



First off let me say, Your chops are so WOW! You are the one and only people I voted a 9 for. I am working out the kinks of this site and will stick around as long as it makes me happy. I love to create and this site has challenged me to chop things that I am not used to doing. If you know the vibe at deviantart you get what im talking about. Anyway, I will try to fit in here and not take things so personally. Thanks for your advice!

[Edited by User on 7/15/2012 5:28:31 PM]
Comments: 135
Contest Entries: 57
The divorce rate of my socks is astonishing!

Disasterman111
Democrats
7/15/2012 5:36:23 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
Welcome to the site Veroni, I'm sure you will have a great time here
Comments: 5217
Contest Entries: 109
If it was easy anyone could do it!

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