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I have to agree with AzureSky re:- Certain voters


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vicspa
Independents
5/4/2012 8:30:18 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
The voting on every photoshop site such as this is unfair.
I've been on several, and it's always the same complaints, I can not see how the voting can possibly be fair.
Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

AzureSky
Independents
5/4/2012 8:37:40 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 5/4/2012 8:30:18 PM, vicspa said:
The voting on every photoshop site such as this is unfair.
I've been on several, and it's always the same complaints, I can not see how the voting can possibly be fair.



I think FN tries very hard to be fair and on the whole it is, in my opinion.

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/4/2012 8:48:00 PM


Status: Attorney General

On 5/4/2012 7:37:40 PM, AzureSky said:
I gave up on Worth because the voting is manifestly unfair.



Yeah...it's how they've chosen to set up their karma system. This one must do deviations by individual entry, or figure out the whole deviation number based off of an average of individual entries or something similar, though, because you can game the one at Worth all day long (though, the admin refuse to believe this, despite the evidence I forced them to review). This one, not so much.

It means that stuff that is outside the norm (like that awesome egg yolk pic from the Easter contest) has a bit harder time breaking through, because people don't think that others will vote as highly for it as they might want to, but overall, the voting here is incredibly fair, as demonstrated by the entry I spoke of before.

And, I still enter stuff at Worth if I like the contest. Then again, as I've stated, the voting means little to me, and I will even (often) make things I know will do poorly, voting-wise.

I quit looking at votes and started looking at views to gauge how poorly or well I've done. Often times, I'll have double the views on pic X as my highest rated pic (in terms of votes, for contests in which I've entered at least 2 things), so while it may not resonate with the voters, it obviously resonates with the viewers, and all I really want is to make someone giggle or smile, anyway. Once that happens, I win.




EDIT - for example, my RuPaul entry in the Propaganda contest has more views than any of the top 3 entries, included the featured entry (the Obama eats dog joke...gag...at the joke, not the fact that he ate dog).

So, which one is winner, the one that got the votes or the one that more people choose to click on and view? I understand that the money goes to the person who received more votes, but I tend to think the site does better when they get people clicking around as much as possible.

Anyway, whatever...

[Edited by User on 5/4/2012 9:30:40 PM]
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

AzureSky
Independents
5/6/2012 8:38:26 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
I lost points on the movie contest because I didn't understand what some of the original movies were. I don't always get the humor of American chops. I find Canadian and Australian humor much easier to relate to.
No doubt British humor doesn't always resonate with other countries.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/7/2012 1:41:28 AM


Status: Attorney General

On 5/6/2012 6:55:44 PM, vicspa said:
voting is unfair EVERYWHERE!
Including here.

[Edited by User on 5/6/2012 6:56:26 PM]

[Edited by User on 5/6/2012 6:56:58 PM]



How so? Where is your evidence? I showed the admin at worth1000 direct evidence of people cheating (multiple IDs of individual voters promoting yet another ID's picture that also belongs to them...because they can get all their IDs to max karma pretty quickly, all while voting their own entries abnormally high).

I don't necessarily enjoy the style of what does well here, but I have a hard time saying that the voting is unfair (because a couple lighting effects and a blurred black and white overlay really make a picture better...oh wait, no they don't, but smoke and mirrors have always been popular with the masses).
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

vicspa
Independents
5/7/2012 11:51:57 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
"How so? Where is your evidence? I showed the admin at worth1000 direct evidence of people cheating (multiple IDs of individual voters promoting yet another ID's picture that also belongs to them...because they can get all their IDs to max karma pretty quickly, all while voting their own entries abnormally high)."

By unfair I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about someone with little on no experience voting for a simple cut and paste and not for a better chop only because he does not know what a good chop involves doing.
Malcolmxy, you write ..."I don't necessarily enjoy the style of what does well here"
I agree 100% with you, there is much more one can do with Photoshop, cut and paste is as basic as you can get.(but we all started somewhere).

I started a chop in the empty bathroom contest to prove this point to myself and about an hour into it I realized it was going to take at least 8 hours or more to complete it and gave up on it, I figured why put all that work into it and come in 12th place behind some head pasted over another body.

I did win one contest doing exactly what other entries win first place for,(see the Grumpy Guy) but this is not what I want to do with Photoshop.
I'm no longer sure I want to continue anymore.

In my opinion, voting cannot be fair, ...unless there is an expert and impartial panel of photoshoppers doing the judging, and that seems to be out of the question.

This is just my opinion and do not mean to insult anyone with my comments.

The good thing about this site is that the voters vote rather high on most entries.

[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 11:53:55 AM]

[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 11:55:45 AM]
Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/7/2012 1:29:32 PM


Status: Attorney General

On 5/7/2012 11:51:57 AM, vicspa said:

By unfair I'm not talking about cheating, I'm talking about someone with little on no experience voting for a simple cut and paste and not for a better chop only because he does not know what a good chop involves doing.

Malcolmxy, you write ..."I don't necessarily enjoy the style of what does well here"
I agree 100% with you, there is much more one can do with Photoshop, cut and paste is as basic as you can get.(but we all started somewhere).

I started a chop in the empty bathroom contest to prove this point to myself and about an hour into it I realized it was going to take at least 8 hours or more to complete it and gave up on it, I figured why put all that work into it and come in 12th place behind some head pasted over another body.

I did win one contest doing exactly what other entries win first place for,(see the Grumpy Guy) but this is not what I want to do with Photoshop.
I'm no longer sure I want to continue anymore.

In my opinion, voting cannot be fair, ...unless there is an expert and impartial panel of photoshoppers doing the judging, and that seems to be out of the question.

This is just my opinion and do not mean to insult anyone with my comments.

The good thing about this site is that the voters vote rather high on most entries.

[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 11:53:55 AM]

[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 11:55:45 AM]



1. Example (if you have one...I know people have differing opinions about this, so seeing what you feel is worthy and why it is so would be helpful). Personally, if it takes more than 2 hours, I won't do it, unless doing it is for myself (at a basic level...I might enter it, but that's just a function of it fitting within the rules).

2. Cut and paste vs other stuff - I'm guilty of this, but there's cutting and pasting and there's cutting and pasting (matching hue, tone, contrast, etc to ensure a seamless blend...proper masking, which I am entirely too lazy to do most times, etc). For me, it's effects...anyone can press a button to make X look all fancy or double up a layer as a blurred black and white overlay (which achieves an effect that seems to amaze most people when it's about the easiest thing one can do). Cutting and pasting, at least, involves some manual work that a series of pre-set commands can't achieve for you.

However, someone like AZRainman, while he does get down like this, somewhat, is also incredibly skilled, and it's hard to fault him for being good and also popular in the style he puts forth.

3. compromising your style/quitting - that's a personal choice, and I've done a bit of pandering here as well, but you either like doing this or not. If you like it, then why would you quit? You're only depriving yourself of pleasure at that point. Also, things will never change if no one is around to change them. I've never won here (did get 2nd once), but I've noticed that lately my votes have been increasing steadily. Unfortunately, change happens slowly. I like stuff where the source pics tend to be older. That means my chops lack a certain shininess...doesn't mean they were any easier to make, but the "wow" factor tends to be missing in certain instances (also, I make mistakes sometimes because of my relative lack of experience, and I pretty well refuse to pander, stylistically anymore). But, as people see enough alternatives to the stuff they're used to voting highly for, they'll come around.

4. Fair voting - While I despise the voting at worth1000, one thing I do like about their set-up is that they have a list of quantitative standards. No one follows them, but they exist. I wish there was more of that here (with reminders as you vote like they have at worth1000). That, coupled with the karma system here, I think would bring about the closest thing to a fair voting system that there could possibly be. I also think the concept should count for something. I was disappointed with the results in the Star Wars contest, because not only had the exact same thing as the winning entry be done before, it had been done here (and had won previously...). Originality should matter...or, I think it should, anyway.

In the end, there are people who appreciate what I do, and that's about as good as I can hope for. I don't want "my style" to be the prevailing style, nor do I want yours to be, nor do I want anyone's to be. I just want them all to be accepted and judged on their merits. And, it's happening...or, it's starting to happen. Even if it doesn't, though, I'm gonna keep plugging along and doing what I do, because I enjoy what I do...voters be dmned.

(most artists, of which I am not one, aren't appreciated until after they are dead, anyway. they don't quit, though, because they can't help but go on. I hope you decide to go on, and congrats on your win, no matter how much you had to compromise your own aesthetic to achieve it.)
Comments: 847
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War is over, if you want it

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/7/2012 1:48:23 PM


Status: Attorney General
This would be my example...this is one of the most challenging things I have ever made (copying the style of Andre The Giant with another character, doing so solely with a picture of that character and a ton of trial and error until I achieved what I set out to achieve), and while I never entered it in a contest here, I'm sure if I did, it would do as universally poorly as it has everywhere else I did enter it. Makes no difference to me, though, as it remains one of the things I've made of which I am the most proud.



Sometimes others know the score, and sometimes they figure it out later. Other times, they never figure it out. If you're in the game, though, you always know the score, and every once in a while, you find another player who does as well. Beyond that, what more can you ask for, really?
Comments: 847
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War is over, if you want it

vicspa
Independents
5/7/2012 1:48:34 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
Words of wisdom from you, you have no idea how much I appreciated what you just said.
Sometimes I'm torn between doing what people vote high for in the hope to win, or work your butt off to do what I like to do, but hardly be recognized, may a good balance between the both, ...maybe.
I will hang in there and see what happens, don't want to be a quitter, have been here for too short a time .
Not being too political, I prefer one image to work with as opposed to the week in pictures part of the site.
originality counts alot in my book and it's worth more than a well done, but boring chop.

You should not settle for "as good as I'm going to be", there is alot left to learn in life and photoshop. I think I am way to old to start learning new things, but I still do it anyway.
So keep on chopping, see you in the contests, and thanks.
Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/7/2012 2:25:06 PM


Status: Attorney General
PS -

You've entered like 3 contests and you have a 1st and a 3rd place trophy already. Sheesh...it's not like you can expect to win every time out.

Also, this is super dope...anyone who knows Townsend knows why.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic




[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 3:42:56 PM]
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

AzureSky
Independents
5/7/2012 7:48:13 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 5/7/2012 1:48:34 PM, vicspa said:
Words of wisdom from you, you have no idea how much I appreciated what you just said.
Sometimes I'm torn between doing what people vote high for in the hope to win, or work your butt off to do what I like to do, but hardly be recognized, may a good balance between the both, ...maybe.
I will hang in there and see what happens, don't want to be a quitter, have been here for too short a time .
Not being too political, I prefer one image to work with as opposed to the week in pictures part of the site.
originality counts alot in my book and it's worth more than a well done, but boring chop.

You should not settle for "as good as I'm going to be", there is alot left to learn in life and photoshop. I think I am way to old to start learning new things, but I still do it anyway.
So keep on chopping, see you in the contests, and thanks.



I agree with Malcomxy, you are doing very well indeed for somebody new to this site.

Some are here for years without winning. If you chop to win you are bound to be disappointed some of the time. We have world class choppers here. It is good to have them here so we can learn from then.

I often spend hours on chops, some take longer than others. On the whole the voting is OK. I feel I have done well to make it into the top ten.

Let's face it if you are here to make money you won't get very fat on the winnings even if you won gold every day. This is, however a great showcase for your work.

You can email chops you are proud of to your friends and family, or potential customers. I send chops I admire by other people to friends. There are some amazing ones if you look through galleries.

Here is the format to submit links to news stories. You could copy it into works the just pop in the story

[ URL= "http://www.SomeNewsSite.com" ] news title [/URL ] Be sure to use the square brackets I have been known to press the shift keys and use the other sort, in which case the link won't show up. You also need to close the gaps apart from the news title



[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 7:50:12 PM]
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

AzureSky
Independents
5/7/2012 7:51:36 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
I had a look at all your entries vicspa, you should do very well here. Do things you like that please you. That is the best way to have fun here in my opinion.








[Edited by User on 5/7/2012 7:54:08 PM]
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Laredog
Independents
5/7/2012 11:46:53 PM


Status: Speech Writer
I still say there is a complete bias here.
I would request the moderators/administrators.... not vote.
No prior knowledge of who it is. No friendships to get in the way.
I watched one chop (a good one) be posted elsewhere prior to voting and then receive a second place here.
I've watched Rodney P (Seriously Mr. Pike.... not trying to cap on you), enter chops that have been published elsewhere long ago and then win here.
STOP the Madness people.
Follow the rules.
There seems to be a look that wins here. It has not as much to do with Photoshop skills as it does...that look for FN.
I agrre with Azure Sky on this one point... a soft caricature (sp) will beat a great concept or story any day.
I want to create. I want to compete. But I want it to be fair!
I have received a single "1" as well on all mine and wish that voter taken out and shot.
Comments: 239
Contest Entries: 111
Laredog "Gone Fishing"

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/8/2012 4:32:10 AM


Status: Attorney General

On 5/7/2012 11:46:53 PM, Laredog said:
I still say there is a complete bias here.
I would request the moderators/administrators.... not vote.
No prior knowledge of who it is. No friendships to get in the way.
I watched one chop (a good one) be posted elsewhere prior to voting and then receive a second place here.
I've watched Rodney P (Seriously Mr. Pike.... not trying to cap on you), enter chops that have been published elsewhere long ago and then win here.
STOP the Madness people.
Follow the rules.
There seems to be a look that wins here. It has not as much to do with Photoshop skills as it does...that look for FN.
I agrre with Azure Sky on this one point... a soft caricature (sp) will beat a great concept or story any day.
I want to create. I want to compete. But I want it to be fair!
I have received a single "1" as well on all mine and wish that voter taken out and shot.



I know exactly when the mods vote, because I watch the scores change, and I see the comment that at least one of them makes on nearly every entry (which is sometimes just a smiley, but it's there nearly every time).

Sometimes, my chops are funny (really, more than anything, this is what I am trying to achieve...the perfection that the rest of you are looking foris silly to me, given that I know these are consumed and then forgotten, but whatever, that's just me). When they are funny, but sloppy, I get an "LOL" and a score commensurate with a good concept and sub-par work. When they got nothing going for them, I get a score that is representative of that. When they're both funny and well done, I get a score that awards my work, and it ain't exactly like my style fits in with the "winning style" that this place seems to put forward on most contests. (I think I might have a special little place in newsmaster's iHeart, though, so perhaps I am a beneficiary of this favoritism of which you speak, but given how I do in these contests, I really don't think so).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the mods are the biggest help (seems to me, anyway) in trying to shift styles and judge on the merit of the pieces and not just their commonality with what's currently popular. Then again, I don't really pay attention every time, and I'm looking to score on # of laughs over points, so I might be completely full of it.

Might not be, though...
Comments: 847
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War is over, if you want it

Malcolmxy
Independents
5/8/2012 4:33:15 AM


Status: Attorney General
When there is a disproportionate system in favor of X or Y, you look to X or Y for the issue, not Z...if that makes sense.
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

AzureSky
Independents
5/8/2012 9:29:04 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 5/7/2012 11:46:53 PM, Laredog said:
I still say there is a complete bias here.
I would request the moderators/administrators.... not vote.
No prior knowledge of who it is. No friendships to get in the way.
I watched one chop (a good one) be posted elsewhere prior to voting and then receive a second place here.
I've watched Rodney P (Seriously Mr. Pike.... not trying to cap on you), enter chops that have been published elsewhere long ago and then win here.
STOP the Madness people.
Follow the rules.
There seems to be a look that wins here. It has not as much to do with Photoshop skills as it does...that look for FN.
I agrre with Azure Sky on this one point... a soft caricature (sp) will beat a great concept or story any day.
I want to create. I want to compete. But I want it to be fair!
I have received a single "1" as well on all mine and wish that voter taken out and shot.



It has crossed my mind that comments by jurors and admins may influence some voters.
There have been some great entries in the bathroom contest and to judge by the way the voting is going the top three have entered stunning images.
I notice the top two in most contests stand out from the start, with variations on the rest.
As any advertising man will tell you an advertisement needs to create a reaction in seconds. For entries to work here they need immediate impact.
It is a waste of time and energy getting steamed up about results. One day something will just click and you will win a trophy.
I only have five golds, two were very complicated and took many hours. The others less so but took a lot of research.
Being one of the oldies on here I am not up to date on many things. Some I don't even understand, the modern "music" for instance.
I don't know who a lot of the famous Americans are so can't understand the jokes. The only politicians we tend to hear about are the Presidents.
As my old teacher used to say "There is no such thing as 'fair'"
It is individual opinions every time.
I will be glad when the intermediate contests arrive. Newsy says we will have them when FN goes to a larger server.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

AzureSky
Independents
5/8/2012 9:31:24 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 5/7/2012 1:48:23 PM, Malcolmxy said:
This would be my example...this is one of the most challenging things I have ever made (copying the style of Andre The Giant with another character, doing so solely with a picture of that character and a ton of trial and error until I achieved what I set out to achieve), and while I never entered it in a contest here, I'm sure if I did, it would do as universally poorly as it has everywhere else I did enter it. Makes no difference to me, though, as it remains one of the things I've made of which I am the most proud.



Sometimes others know the score, and sometimes they figure it out later. Other times, they never figure it out. If you're in the game, though, you always know the score, and every once in a while, you find another player who does as well. Beyond that, what more can you ask for, really?



Malcomxy I don't understand your image, at first I wondered if it was one of those optical illusions but I couldn't see anything. Please can you explain?

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

vicspa
Independents
5/8/2012 10:12:09 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

I watched one chop (a good one) be posted elsewhere prior to voting and then receive a second place here.
I've watched Rodney P (Seriously Mr. Pike.... not trying to cap on you), enter chops that have been published elsewhere long ago and then win here.
STOP the Madness people.
Follow the rules.

I, not having read all the rules ( my fault ) entered something that was published a few years ago, and it was QUICKLY removed because of that.

Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

vicspa
Independents
5/8/2012 10:14:26 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
By the way Azure, Malcolm, Laredog, thanks for your help.
Comments: 955
Contest Entries: 360

NewsMaster
Independents
5/8/2012 1:07:23 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 5/8/2012 10:12:09 AM, vicspa said:

I watched one chop (a good one) be posted elsewhere prior to voting and then receive a second place here.
I've watched Rodney P (Seriously Mr. Pike.... not trying to cap on you), enter chops that have been published elsewhere long ago and then win here.
STOP the Madness people.
Follow the rules.

I, not having read all the rules ( my fault ) entered something that was published a few years ago, and it was QUICKLY removed because of that.

Images entered in any previous CONTESTS (FN or elsewhere) are not allowed to be entered again. However if any older images did not participate in any contest (were only published in personal galleries, blogs, etc.) are OK to enter. The Rodney's images you talked about were not entered in any contests prior to FN.

Comments: 99153
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Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

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