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AzureSky
Independents
3/25/2012 5:20:07 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/25/2012 12:38:48 PM, Chili said:
You have to realize that when someone has a Karma of 1 , their vote has little to do with the score in the contest . I personally think the way this whole website voting is , is very accurate & fair , so please don't stress about who is not participating fair & who is .Its a simple Contest !!!



I am annoyed about trawling through 72 chops, thinking carefully about what vote to give, and making comments on some, only to find 42 were by the same chopper who couldn't be bothered to vote fairly.

Even if he has Karma of 1, it is the principle of the matter.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

IcyAllEyeCan
Independents
3/25/2012 5:34:21 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
I just went and looked at how my voting compared to others in the Rosie contest and I will admit, I am low overall -- like the third lowest (of those voting.) I still would love it if the jurors and admins were the deciders for what a chop is worth. I could learn more accurate voting with a steady goal. So could others ... it was interesting to see how people either seem to have 300 karma points or 1. It's not a spread, but grouped in those who do well and those who fail miserably.

In lieu of that, a posted explanation of percentage factoring would help. What I mean is "blending = 10% of your score" ... "idea/concept = 50%" ... "humor = 10%" ... "compositing skill = 20%" if this is what it is. For me, the last item is the largest and that could be doing me in.
Comments: 1714
Contest Entries: 614
~Icyhttp://phorho.blogspot.com

AzureSky
Independents
3/25/2012 5:50:46 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/25/2012 5:34:21 PM, IcyAllEyeCan said:
I just went and looked at how my voting compared to others in the Rosie contest and I will admit, I am low overall -- like the third lowest (of those voting.) I still would love it if the jurors and admins were the deciders for what a chop is worth. I could learn more accurate voting with a steady goal. So could others ... it was interesting to see how people either seem to have 300 karma points or 1. It's not a spread, but grouped in those who do well and those who fail miserably.

In lieu of that, a posted explanation of percentage factoring would help. What I mean is "blending = 10% of your score" ... "idea/concept = 50%" ... "humor = 10%" ... "compositing skill = 20%" if this is what it is. For me, the last item is the largest and that could be doing me in.



The voting system got me on the Rose contest. I lost karma for giving out 4's on a few entries.

Honesty s not the best policy it seems. Mind you one chop was after I commented on it and would have got a better mark.

My bugbear is those enter a truckload of chops then give us all 1's. or 2's



Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Qtrmoonshop
Independents
3/25/2012 6:58:08 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
To use the administration's own vernacular regarding "rating entries", a 6 is "better than average". This means that it is "ONLY" just better than average. The language used for the level 7 entry is "MUCH better than average", which means it is "MUCH " better than "only just better than average", not "a little better" or "somewhat better", but "MUCH" better! If this is true, then why is someone allowed to give an "ONLY" just better than average 6 , to a "MUCH better than average" 7 without losing karma? This is very confusing to me, and seems to make it so easy for anyone to "low vote" an entry that they feel may threaten their chances, by giving a 6 to a chop that is clearly at least a 7 or an 8 . They figure the majority will probably give this a 7 or 8 , so I'll give it a 6 and that way it will help my chances, and there's a good chance that I won't lose karma either. In the meantime, enough people follow suit, and all of a sudden, instead of finishing respectively where you should, you receive a few unpunished low 6 votes, from members with karma that matters, on your entry that has a majority of sevens, a good deal of eights, and even some nines and tens, and you find yourself in an undeserved place in a contest with manipulated results. For me, it seems to allow too much room for competitive minded people to compromise their own integrity in hopes of winning.
In addition to that, the majority of voters have very low karma, which means the contests results are being determined by a few good karma members and mostly the same jurors, which in turn means the results are subject to the opinions, likes, and dislikes of the same handful of voters most of the time, and also would suggest that some of these low votes are coming from them?

CRUX OF THE ISSUE: After realizing all of this, you have to ask yourself, "What's more important, all of this "BullSh!t" , or all of the wonderful things I get from participating on this site ..?"
That's my 2cents, thanks for letting me vent.
Comments: 2855
Contest Entries: 258
All that matters now, has just begun ...

AzureSky
Independents
3/26/2012 3:18:53 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
First of all my apologies for confusing the choppers voting.
qtrmoonshop makes some valid points.

Lately, I have seen some good chops beaten by inferior ones. No I am not going to name anyone. Nor am I referring to my own puny efforts.

As we say in England, it s not the winning but the taking part that counts.

However, as I am so often saying, it seems crazy to allow muliti8ple entries in contests, without some kind of limit.

The bearded woman contest was crammed with highly superior entries by a brilliant chopper. Nobody apart from Marksdesign stood a chance.

I came in after the brilliant bearded choppers at 23rd place, so wasn't too happy about that.

This isn't the National Lottery. People enter their chops because they care and have worked very hard.

It is upsetting for your entry to tank because somebody decides to enter multiple chops to "show off"

I know our dear AZRainman could have entered that contest and beaten everyone. You don't see him flooding contests with superfluous entries.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/26/2012 7:28:31 PM


Status: Student Council

On 3/26/2012 3:18:53 AM, AzureSky said:
First of all my apologies for confusing the choppers voting.
qtrmoonshop makes some valid points.

Lately, I have seen some good chops beaten by inferior ones. No I am not going to name anyone. Nor am I referring to my own puny efforts.

As we say in England, it s not the winning but the taking part that counts.

However, as I am so often saying, it seems crazy to allow muliti8ple entries in contests, without some kind of limit.

The bearded woman contest was crammed with highly superior entries by a brilliant chopper. Nobody apart from Marksdesign stood a chance.

I came in after the brilliant bearded choppers at 23rd place, so wasn't too happy about that.

This isn't the National Lottery. People enter their chops because they care and have worked very hard.

It is upsetting for your entry to tank because somebody decides to enter multiple chops to "show off"

I know our dear AZRainman could have entered that contest and beaten everyone. You don't see him flooding contests with superfluous entries.




The beaded contest had I think 42 or so entries with in an hour. I didn't bother to enter as by the end of the contest it would have been too many for people to vote with any precision.

I was recently put down in the News contest because of my voting that has Karma 1 that I can't seem to elevate. Because rather than a 7 like everyone else I gave a six. Well, too freaking bad. I could go on and on about why, but it was a fair score. It wasn't a 2 or 1 or even a 5. C'mon....

I will not be giving score to people I don't think deserve them. I have read the guidelines, and base my scores on that. I am not trying to elevate my karma, nor will I probably ever. It seems I have to follow the flock for that to work. I vote twice, and I usually vote the same both times w/o thinking about it.

For instance, even though I did not care for one of the entrants work, it was very well done, and looked great. But the message, context and overall punch was missing. Despite all that, I still voted very high. It deserved it.

If there was more of a heated battle going on, the score would have probably dropped in favor of the other having my highest award.

In other words, I look at the contest as a whole, and dole out score according to which ones I feel should place. Even though my score doesn't matter.

my 2 bits.
Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

IcyAllEyeCan
Independents
3/26/2012 8:23:02 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
You know, Qrtrmoonshop, I had not considered that angle, but you're absolutely right: those with high karma decide each contest, regardless of the pack. And since they have high karma, they propel the average towards their point value, ensuring they keep their karma. It's a win-win for them. But it makes an uneven playing field.

It shouldn't be called karma. I realize that's part of why I care. Karma, for me, means being honest and that what you put out being what you get back. I put in honesty according to my values -- I don't cheat, so I don't deserve to be cheated. (And I don't feel I have been, except in being kept at a karma of 1.)

So a system of everyone having one vote has been tried and didn't work? Because then someone who enters 40+ chops and isn't allowed to vote on their own work would lose a vote on each of those 40. Maybe they would end up not voting. Then you'd need a rule against not voting (too often, not about missing a vote once or twice.)

DunceCap, I also decided to forego the bearded lady contest and for the same reason. Before this thread, I thought there was a 3-entries per member rule. That must be elsewhere.
Comments: 1714
Contest Entries: 614
~Icyhttp://phorho.blogspot.com

Chili
Independents
3/27/2012 3:30:13 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/26/2012 7:28:31 PM, TheDunceCap said:

On 3/26/2012 3:18:53 AM, AzureSky said:
First of all my apologies for confusing the choppers voting.
qtrmoonshop makes some valid points.

Lately, I have seen some good chops beaten by inferior ones. No I am not going to name anyone. Nor am I referring to my own puny efforts.

As we say in England, it s not the winning but the taking part that counts.

However, as I am so often saying, it seems crazy to allow muliti8ple entries in contests, without some kind of limit.

The bearded woman contest was crammed with highly superior entries by a brilliant chopper. Nobody apart from Marksdesign stood a chance.

I came in after the brilliant bearded choppers at 23rd place, so wasn't too happy about that.

This isn't the National Lottery. People enter their chops because they care and have worked very hard.

It is upsetting for your entry to tank because somebody decides to enter multiple chops to "show off"

I know our dear AZRainman could have entered that contest and beaten everyone. You don't see him flooding contests with superfluous entries.




The beaded contest had I think 42 or so entries with in an hour. I didn't bother to enter as by the end of the contest it would have been too many for people to vote with any precision.

I was recently put down in the News contest because of my voting that has Karma 1 that I can't seem to elevate. Because rather than a 7 like everyone else I gave a six. Well, too freaking bad. I could go on and on about why, but it was a fair score. It wasn't a 2 or 1 or even a 5. C'mon....

I will not be giving score to people I don't think deserve them. I have read the guidelines, and base my scores on that. I am not trying to elevate my karma, nor will I probably ever. It seems I have to follow the flock for that to work. I vote twice, and I usually vote the same both times w/o thinking about it.

For instance, even though I did not care for one of the entrants work, it was very well done, and looked great. But the message, context and overall punch was missing. Despite all that, I still voted very high. It deserved it.

If there was more of a heated battle going on, the score would have probably dropped in favor of the other having my highest award.

In other words, I look at the contest as a whole, and dole out score according to which ones I feel should place. Even though my score doesn't matter.

my 2 bits.



In the News of the week contest , you gave 6(5's), 2(6's), 1(7) & 1( .Yes , you came in 2nd place but you had the lowest average score of voting . To me an to most choppers who have been around FN for awhile ,that is a insult to everyone . Plus , you commented on JimShorts 3rd place entry & wrote Quote ] "Congrats JimShorts, Really liked this one alot. I voted my heart out" . That blew my mind when i read that , You did not vote your heart out at all bro !!!! If you look at my voting on that contest , my voting average was very good & very fair . I also looked at your other contests that you voted in , Damn ,you love giving mostly 5's .
When i first started here in FN , i was just like you , i low balled everyone when i voted (basically insulted everyone elses work except my own) . I got my ass chewed out by Kellie & sure i was mad as heck at the time but in time i learned to play fair , equal & with respect in the contests & in the forums . So you can take this advice or throw it in the trashcan . Just a little advise from someone who has been in your shoes !!!!!

-Edited by Moderator on 3/27/2012 11:06:48 AM

-Edited by Moderator on 3/27/2012 11:06:53 AM
Comments: 1696
Contest Entries: 327
Truly great madness can not be achieved without using Photoshop ;-)

AzureSky
Independents
3/27/2012 10:02:24 AM


Status: Commander in Chief


Lately, I have seen some good chops beaten by inferior ones. No I am not going to name anyone. Nor am I referring to my own puny efforts.

As we say in England, it s not the winning but the taking part that counts.

However, as I am so often saying, it seems crazy to allow muliti8ple entries in contests, without some kind of limit.

The bearded woman contest was crammed with highly superior entries by a brilliant chopper. Nobody apart from Marksdesign stood a chance.

I came in after the brilliant bearded choppers at 23rd place, so wasn't too happy about that.

This isn't the National Lottery. People enter their chops because they care and have worked very hard.

It is upsetting for your entry to tank because somebody decides to enter multiple chops to "show off"

I know our dear AZRainman could have entered that contest and beaten everyone. You don't see him flooding contests with superfluous entries.




The beaded contest had I think 42 or so entries with in an hour. I didn't bother to enter as by the end of the contest it would have been too many for people to vote with any precision.

I was recently put down in the News contest because of my voting that has Karma 1 that I can't seem to elevate. Because rather than a 7 like everyone else I gave a six. Well, too freaking bad. I could go on and on about why, but it was a fair score. It wasn't a 2 or 1 or even a 5. C'mon....

I will not be giving score to people I don't think deserve them. I have read the guidelines, and base my scores on that. I am not trying to elevate my karma, nor will I probably ever. It seems I have to follow the flock for that to work. I vote twice, and I usually vote the same both times w/o thinking about it.

For instance, even though I did not care for one of the entrants work, it was very well done, and looked great. But the message, context and overall punch was missing. Despite all that, I still voted very high. It deserved it.

If there was more of a heated battle going on, the score would have probably dropped in favor of the other having my highest award.

In other words, I look at the contest as a whole, and dole out score according to which ones I feel should place. Even though my score doesn't matter.

my 2 bits.



In the News of the week contest , you gave 6(5's), 2(6's), 1(7) & 1( .Yes , you came in 2nd place but you had the lowest average score of voting . To me an to most choppers who have been around FN for awhile ,that is a insult to everyone . Plus , you commented on JimShorts 3rd place entry & wrote Quote ] "Congrats JimShorts, Really liked this one alot. I voted my heart out" . That blew my mind when i read that , You did not vote your heart out at all bro !!!! If you look at my voting on that contest , my voting average was very good & very fair . I also looked at your other contests that you voted in , Damn ,you love giving mostly 5's .
When i first started here in FN , i was just like you , i low balled everyone when i voted (basically insulted everyone elses work except my own) . I got my ass chewed out by Kellie & sure i was mad as heck at the time but in time i learned to play fair , equal & with respect in the contests & in the forums . So you can take this advice or throw it in the trashcan . Just a little advise from someone who has been in your shoes !!!!!


I do try hard to be fair but lately I have lost karma for voting less than 5 on chops that would once have been lucky to get a 2 or 3. I won't name them.

Mostly I vote from 6 to 9, 10 for truly brilliant chops. I am getting increasingly confused by the poor chops that get 5 or even 6 votes.

I have been here for 7 years, I had a long break from chopping but still visited.

I broke my arm a while back, a very nasty break which left me with nerve damage.

That alone, put paid to chopping for about a year. I had a cast on for six months. For some reason the break would not heal.

I don't expect to win contests because I am very well aware of the young ones coming along who are utterly brilliant.

Especially my dear AZRainman, who is a lovely person, always ready to help. Very intelligent and handsome too.

I am an old lady of 65, so I don't think he will mind me saying that!



Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/27/2012 10:09:00 AM


Status: Student Council

On 3/27/2012 3:30:13 AM, Chili said:

In the News of the week contest , you gave 6(5's), 2(6's), 1(7) & 1( .Yes , you came in 2nd place but you had the lowest average score of voting . To me an to most choppers who have been around FN for awhile ,that is a insult to everyone . Plus , you commented on JimShorts 3rd place entry & wrote Quote ] "Congrats JimShorts, Really liked this one alot. I voted my heart out" . That blew my mind when i read that , You did not vote your heart out at all bro !!!! If you look at my voting on that contest , my voting average was very good & very fair . I also looked at your other contests that you voted in , Damn ,you love giving mostly 5's .
When i first started here in FN , i was just like you , i low balled everyone when i voted (basically insulted everyone elses work except my own) . I got my ass chewed out by Kellie & sure i was mad as heck at the time but in time i learned to play fair , equal & with respect in the contests & in the forums . So you can take this advice or throw it in the trashcan . Just a little advise from someone who has been in your shoes !!!!!






So an insulting vote is anything other than a 7???

I never gave anyone, ANYONE a vote below a 5!!! And like I said before, this is based on a whole for the entire group.

Thanks by the way for airing this out in the thread. Real classy.

I vote based on the guidelines, and the lot in that contest as a whole. Not because I think my 1 is going to sway my vote AT ALL. I have read the instructions, and it is what I feel.

So why even have 1-5? If all the votes must be from 5-10, or in your estimation 7-10, or is it 8-10?

I told myself I wasn't going to let this get to me, but it has. This is just a contest and all that, but what business it of yours to tell me ANYTHING?

It wasn't a low ball. Not 1's or 2's. Fact is they were all 5's and up.

Thanks for this. Your "advice" was much appreciated.

I'm just going to submit things from now on. I can't crit because people are REALLY sensitive about that. I can't vote based on the guidelines, and commenting is only a way for people to vent their frustration.

I'm going to go work on my "voting skills".

I would like to close with a quote from YOU, Chili earlier in this thread. "I personally think the way this whole website voting is , is very accurate & fair , so please don't stress about who is not participating fair & who is .Its a simple Contest !!!"

Again, REAL CLASSY.

[Edited by User on 3/27/2012 10:17:25 AM]

[Edited by Moderator on 3/27/2012 11:04:17 AM]

-Edited by Moderator on 3/27/2012 11:06:48 AM
Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/27/2012 10:14:02 AM


Status: Student Council
Why then do we even have a voting scale from 1-10. If people are only going to use the part from 6-9?

Why am I so bad for using, the 5-10 part. 10 being a gift from God!

Sorry to hear about your arm Azure. I cut the top of my finger off recently and can't type worth anything. Takes forever...
Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

NewsMaster
Independents
3/27/2012 11:15:11 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
This thread has gone from general discussion of 1-2 voters to some personal discussion of 5-10 voters, and finger-pointing. Thus we are locking it.
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

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