Hi guest. Welcome to FreakingNews! Register (free) or Login     
    Live Help  
FreakingNews homepage
Forums | FN T-Shirts | Chat Room | Site News | Member Search | Hall of Fame | 

All Forums
News Contests Discussions

Is Photoshop Art?


Register or Login
to Post in This Thread.


AzureSky
3/21/2012 6:26:26 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Is Photoshop Art?

In the scoring thread this subject was raised. I feel it is an important one. In my opinion Photoshop has become an art form in its' own right.

There are numerous artists who create images with photoshop and sell them as prints. Many hold exhibitions.

David Hockney has recently held an exhibition of work. He created the images with his ipad and cameras.

He uses Photoshop and Wacom tablet.

[Edited by 'AzureSky' on 3/21/2012 6:53:09 AM]
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
AzureSky
Independents
3/21/2012 6:44:41 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Image what fun the Old Masters would have had with Photoshop!


David Hockney iPad

David Hockney photoshop

David Hockney Wacom






[Edited by User on 3/21/2012 6:50:02 AM]
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

kennyb
Independents
3/21/2012 8:54:06 AM


Status: Wal Mart Greeter
I think it is what you do with it and how it is perceived by the public and/or your fans. A lot of people would argue that graphic design is not art...my counter point would be that if that is true than why is a bunch or what would be deemed commercial art finding it's way into fine art prints, galleries, living rooms and auction houses.

The only real difference between fine art and graphic design is that graphic design is "commercial art" which is to say that it is commissioned by someone that is paying for it. I will grant you that it is generally to market a company, product or service...but generally the person doing it is still an artist and they are still using some of the same tools mentally/creatively. Photoshop may be a software but for most designers or artists...it is a tool, like a brush, pen, airbursh, etc.

So is Photoshop art...in the right hands...I say yes.

And to bring artists and designers/commercial artist a little closer a lot of your earlier artists did work that was commissioined as well...great example the sistine chapel was commissioned work...not just art for arts sake.
Comments: 74
Contest Entries: 11

AzureSky
Independents
3/21/2012 11:28:53 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/21/2012 8:54:06 AM, kennyb said:
I think it is what you do with it and how it is perceived by the public and/or your fans. A lot of people would argue that graphic design is not art...my counter point would be that if that is true than why is a bunch or what would be deemed commercial art finding it's way into fine art prints, galleries, living rooms and auction houses.

The only real difference between fine art and graphic design is that graphic design is "commercial art" which is to say that it is commissioned by someone that is paying for it. I will grant you that it is generally to market a company, product or service...but generally the person doing it is still an artist and they are still using some of the same tools mentally/creatively. Photoshop may be a software but for most designers or artists...it is a tool, like a brush, pen, airbursh, etc.

So is Photoshop art...in the right hands...I say yes.

And to bring artists and designers/commercial artist a little closer a lot of your earlier artists did work that was commissioined as well...great example the sistine chapel was commissioned work...not just art for arts sake.



All very good points Kennyb.
The great painter Sir Alfred Munnings started out as a commercial artist. He designed chocolate bar covers and posters.

Millias did the Pears soap advert, Bubbles. There are many more examples such as Toulouse Lautrec who did posters for the Moulin Rouge.



Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

NewsMaster
Independents
3/21/2012 1:52:46 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/21/2012 8:54:06 AM, kennyb said:
I think it is what you do with it and how it is perceived by the public and/or your fans. A lot of people would argue that graphic design is not art...my counter point would be that if that is true than why is a bunch or what would be deemed commercial art finding it's way into fine art prints, galleries, living rooms and auction houses.

The only real difference between fine art and graphic design is that graphic design is "commercial art" which is to say that it is commissioned by someone that is paying for it. I will grant you that it is generally to market a company, product or service...but generally the person doing it is still an artist and they are still using some of the same tools mentally/creatively. Photoshop may be a software but for most designers or artists...it is a tool, like a brush, pen, airbursh, etc.

So is Photoshop art...in the right hands...I say yes.

And to bring artists and designers/commercial artist a little closer a lot of your earlier artists did work that was commissioined as well...great example the sistine chapel was commissioned work...not just art for arts sake.


Great points indeed, Kenny!
and may I add that Photoshop is just an art tool of the modern times that was not available in the classic art periods (e.g. Renaissance). Commercial art pretty much existed always, and some of the greatest known art pieces were commercial and were commissioned - e.g. Sistine chapel frescos. Most portraits before the 19th century were commissioned, because there were no protography, and paying an artist was the only way to have your portrait as well as that of your family.
So to me, the fact that Photoshop is a digital tool, or that it's used to create commercial art, in no way undermines the idea that Photoshop created stuff is art.


[Edited by User on 3/21/2012 1:50:55 PM]
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/21/2012 4:50:19 PM


Status: Student Council
In 1917 Marcel Duchamp's installation, "Fountain" was for me the ultimate question of what is art.

He took a common urinal and signed it and placed it in a gallery. People were furious. People were provoked.

If the image/object you present to someone provokes anything in the viewer or between them, then it is a form of art.

Like you said Kenny, art was commissioned by the church. Basically just a big advert for the church. More people went to church to view the work, and hang around for the communion.

You don't hire a plumber to do a corporate branding. You hire a Graphic Designer, that went to art school, that has a degree certifying that person with a Bachelors/Masters of Fine Arts. Otherwise commonly known as an Artist.

Make numbered prints of your work either by lithography or screen printing, sign them and sell them it's art. Or in my case print them then roll them up and store them in your closet for your future generations to throw away.


Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

kennyb
Independents
3/21/2012 5:51:52 PM


Status: Wal Mart Greeter
Great examples from all of the above. We haven't had any descenting opinions yet...there is no one to argue with us...LOL!!!
Comments: 74
Contest Entries: 11

AzureSky
Independents
3/21/2012 6:04:22 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
When I did my training 1980-1983, there were no computers available to the public.

We learned to draw fonts by hand, how to set out the type, set letterpress, life drawing, posters, screen pint.

Design corporate identities, stationery etc. Artists came to lecture us, some had started in commercial art.

Our tutors were ruthless in their critiques, you soon learned to overcome hurt feelings. After the tutor had his say, we had to critique each other's work.

We had to learn about history of art. How to produce an ad campaign. So many things crammed into three years full time study. Much of it was dull hard slog and very time consuming.

What Photoshop does above all else, is to free you from the drudgery. You can channel your thoughts into the ideas and translating those ideas.

It is still hard work if you are serious about it. Any artist designer worth his/her salt will constantly strive to improve, no matter what technique they use.

Art is an expression of the artist's personal view. some create beauty, others want to make a political statement. There are so many variations.

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Wiz
Independents
3/21/2012 9:37:41 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/21/2012 6:04:22 PM, AzureSky said:
When I did my training 1980-1983, there were no computers available to the public.

We learned to draw fonts by hand, how to set out the type, set letterpress, life drawing, posters, screen pint.

Design corporate identities, stationery etc. Artists came to lecture us, some had started in commercial art.

Our tutors were ruthless in their critiques, you soon learned to overcome hurt feelings. After the tutor had his say, we had to critique each other's work.

We had to learn about history of art. How to produce an ad campaign. So many things crammed into three years full time study. Much of it was dull hard slog and very time consuming.

What Photoshop does above all else, is to free you from the drudgery. You can channel your thoughts into the ideas and translating those ideas.

It is still hard work if you are serious about it. Any artist designer worth his/her salt will constantly strive to improve, no matter what technique they use.

Art is an expression of the artist's personal view. some create beauty, others want to make a political statement. There are so many variations.




"You had it easy in the '80's AzureSky! When I did my 5 year Graphic Course in London in the '60's, they didn't even have Felt Tip Markers, just old fashioned Gouache Paint, pastels and colored pencils to render things up with.

But back then, we were in the middle of the Pop Art Culture, and had visiting Luminaries such as Saul Bass and Jackson Pollock to hand out pearls of artistic wisdom. And boy was it heady days when these Art Guru's came to town and lectured us poor Graphic Greenhorns, usually in overflowing auditoriums.

I was doubly fortunate to have a mentor in my last year, who actually dropped out of Advertising to teach. Before this guy appeared on the scene, the Graphics Dept had been mainly run by old hack Illustrators who hadn't a clue about how Ad Agencies worked.

It was THE best year of my Creative Life learning from a guy that had worked in an Agency founded by non other than David Ogilvy himself! Much later I found myself spending many years working for the very same Agency, both in London and in Australia.

All this grounding in pre-computer art has helped me a lot, because it gave me a firm understand of light,shade and tonal qualities that can't be taught that easy to someone who's just cut their teeth on a Mac. Having the Photoshop Palette to play with is nothing, unless you know how to use it masterfully. And I think non of us have ever reached that digital zenith, it's a continuing learning curve that goes on and on for all of us.

Have Fun

Wiz


Comments: 221
Contest Entries: 430

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/22/2012 2:46:25 AM


Status: Student Council

On 3/21/2012 9:37:41 PM, Wiz said:

On 3/21/2012 6:04:22 PM, AzureSky said:
When I did my training 1980-1983, there were no computers available to the public.

We learned to draw fonts by hand, how to set out the type, set letterpress, life drawing, posters, screen pint.

Design corporate identities, stationery etc. Artists came to lecture us, some had started in commercial art.

Our tutors were ruthless in their critiques, you soon learned to overcome hurt feelings. After the tutor had his say, we had to critique each other's work.

We had to learn about history of art. How to produce an ad campaign. So many things crammed into three years full time study. Much of it was dull hard slog and very time consuming.

What Photoshop does above all else, is to free you from the drudgery. You can channel your thoughts into the ideas and translating those ideas.

It is still hard work if you are serious about it. Any artist designer worth his/her salt will constantly strive to improve, no matter what technique they use.

Art is an expression of the artist's personal view. some create beauty, others want to make a political statement. There are so many variations.




"You had it easy in the '80's AzureSky! When I did my 5 year Graphic Course in London in the '60's, they didn't even have Felt Tip Markers, just old fashioned Gouache Paint, pastels and colored pencils to render things up with.

But back then, we were in the middle of the Pop Art Culture, and had visiting Luminaries such as Saul Bass and Jackson Pollock to hand out pearls of artistic wisdom. And boy was it heady days when these Art Guru's came to town and lectured us poor Graphic Greenhorns, usually in overflowing auditoriums.

I was doubly fortunate to have a mentor in my last year, who actually dropped out of Advertising to teach. Before this guy appeared on the scene, the Graphics Dept had been mainly run by old hack Illustrators who hadn't a clue about how Ad Agencies worked.

It was THE best year of my Creative Life learning from a guy that had worked in an Agency founded by non other than David Ogilvy himself! Much later I found myself spending many years working for the very same Agency, both in London and in Australia.

All this grounding in pre-computer art has helped me a lot, because it gave me a firm understand of light,shade and tonal qualities that can't be taught that easy to someone who's just cut their teeth on a Mac. Having the Photoshop Palette to play with is nothing, unless you know how to use it masterfully. And I think non of us have ever reached that digital zenith, it's a continuing learning curve that goes on and on for all of us.

Have Fun

Wiz






Hey Wiz, don't forget the master, Paul Rand. He was tearing design a new one then.

I had an instructor ask what we thought we were lacking in our design 3 (3rd yr) class. I said we didn't use hand made work, and draw often enough. She looked at me an said, "who's fault is that?"

Keeps me grounded. Makes me go to the drafting table every now and again to start over.

And like you said Wiz, if you lack the learned basics of color and design, PS is just an expensive piece of software.
Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/22/2012 3:35:28 AM


Status: Attorney General

On 3/21/2012 6:26:26 AM, AzureSky said:
In the scoring thread this subject was raised. I feel it is an important one. In my opinion Photoshop has become an art form in its' own right.

There are numerous artists who create images with photoshop and sell them as prints. Many hold exhibitions.

David Hockney has recently held an exhibition of work. He created the images with his ipad and cameras.

He uses Photoshop and Wacom tablet.

[Edited by 'AzureSky' on 3/21/2012 6:53:09 AM]



Photoshop is a tool. Your question is akin to asking, "is painting art?". The answer to that question, as well as your original one is - some is. Most isn't.



These are both examples of self portraits by Pablo Picasso. Picasso himself would say that one is art and one isn't. If reviewed here, I think the one that Picasso would not call art would be the one to receive the greater reviews.


Anyway, I think a better question would be, "Is the kind of image manipulation typically seen on the more popular sites (for that sort of thing) art?", because anyone can use any tool to make art. Likewise, anyone can use any tool to make crp. It ain't the saw. It's the carpenter.

(PS - I don't consider what I do art if anyone thinks I'm a snob or something. I love doing it, but I have absolutely no allusions about what it is and what it most certainly isn't.)

[Edited by User on 3/22/2012 3:38:56 AM]
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/22/2012 3:56:09 AM


Status: Attorney General
Also, after reading through this thread, I have ZERO formal education in graphic design, I don't use Photoshop (PaintShop Pro X4), I've never opened a book about how to use the software and I've only ever read one tutorial (on lighting and using multiple layers to achieving lighting effects) and I just started doing this on an even mildly serious level 4 months ago (with 4 months before that just screwing around with pasting different heads on various actors in movie scenes and such...no blending, color or any other corrections).

So, maybe I don't have enough time invested to get p!ssed about hearing someone else say this isn't art.

Anyway, I'm not trying to p!ss anyone off. It's just my worthless opinion on the internet, so you may actually want to sprinkle 2 grains of salt or more on it before taking it in.
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it

AzureSky
Independents
3/22/2012 5:17:43 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
"You had it easy in the '80's AzureSky! When I did my 5 year Graphic Course in London in the '60's, they didn't even have Felt Tip Markers, just old fashioned Gouache Paint, pastels and colored pencils to render things up with.

But back then, we were in the middle of the Pop Art Culture, and had visiting Luminaries such as Saul Bass and Jackson Pollock to hand out pearls of artistic wisdom. And boy was it heady days when these Art Guru's came to town and lectured us poor Graphic Greenhorns, usually in overflowing auditoriums.

I was doubly fortunate to have a mentor in my last year, who actually dropped out of Advertising to teach. Before this guy appeared on the scene, the Graphics Dept had been mainly run by old hack Illustrators who hadn't a clue about how Ad Agencies worked.

It was THE best year of my Creative Life learning from a guy that had worked in an Agency founded by non other than David Ogilvy himself! Much later I found myself spending many years working for the very same Agency, both in London and in Australia.

All this grounding in pre-computer art has helped me a lot, because it gave me a firm understand of light,shade and tonal qualities that can't be taught that easy to someone who's just cut their teeth on a Mac. Having the Photoshop Palette to play with is nothing, unless you know how to use it masterfully. And I think non of us have ever reached that digital zenith, it's a continuing learning curve that goes on and on for all of us.

Have Fun

Wiz





I forgot to mention I did a foundation course for a year in the 1960's I loved Commercial Art. got certificates for hand lettering with pencil and gouache. We had a lot of drawing and painting lessons. There was tuition in the use of colour, making colour wheels.

The Head if the Art School was determined to make me go on to London to study Fine Art, The Commercial Art teacher wanted me to stay and do that. At that age I was subject to parental pressure to do Fine Art, which held no interest for me.

In the end, I decided to leave at the end of the year, Then went to do a course in another city. Part of that was at Art School, bang in the swinging sixties. There were some famous teachers at both schools.

Unfortunately, halfway through the year, I became seriously ill for months which put paid to that. Mainly because starting the year again would have been impossible financially.

For the next 16 years, I didn't think about further education. I did pictures to sell, mostly portraits of humans and dogs. Plus some landscapes and some signwriting.

By 1980 I was a single parent and wanted to learn something that would be useful financially in the future. I applied for a popular course in Vocation Design and got a grant. There were 15 places and 152 applicants. 2 dropped out later on.

It was very high pressure, this course had won many awards and had produced some well known names. The other people were all good and I overheard a teacher say "usually we may get one outstanding pupil, this time they all are"

Famous Royal Academy Artists came to teach us. There was an Art Director from McCann Ericsonn, and another from somewhere equally famous like Saatchi. We did real projects which were submitted to real companies.

Richard Hamilton taught us about Pop Art. Ivy Smith (Royal Portrait Gallery winner) taught us drawing and mentored me, she spent a lot of time and effort teaching me to overcome my difficulty drawing 3D images. She would say over and over, "you need to explain" meaning draw how the different surfaces appear.

I shouldn't be name dropping as the names would be meaningless overseas. What I do know, is we got the best teachers, who were experts in their field. Our course was, at that time, top in the whole country for awards. Some of the students with me, were really outstanding and went on to prestigious jobs.

My family still needed me, so I remained near home. I did, however, work in advertising, print and on a newspaper. I married a compositor who was also trained in the early computer graphics and then went on to learn, Quark Xpress, Cybervision and Photoshop in its' early stages.

He taught me so much about computers, type, design for print and the basics of Photoshop, He had done all kinds of work in his career including technical book work, (pages and pages of math symbols and equations), timetables, record covers, books. He said the 27 years he worked for the newspaper were the highest paid and the easiest.

He started a small company in 2005 doing print and design. We produce books from scratch, magazines, a lot of bread and butter work such as stationery and NCR sets, labels, business cards and posters. We get some strange requests sometimes.

One man asked us to do a fake million pound note! He had some artwork for it. It was the Bank of Bejing. He took it to the supermarket and the cashier replied with a straight face, "Sorry sir, we don't have enough change".






Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

diamonds
Independents
3/22/2012 7:33:46 PM


Status: Political Science Professor
I like to think of the work of BobRafto as art actually - I find it amazing.

Just cutting and copying and making funny pic's though the photoshop type medium is an art form I guess, but I am not sure I would classify it as art.

If you were to take your own photographs and then manipulate them, again, I would classify that as an art form.

Art is always a percieved thing isn't it? I went to a small exhibition last weekend, of a photographic artist. I really did not like any of his work but most others there loved nearly all that he submitted.

But here I love looking and reviewing at the pic's that people submit, I do love to see a picture that is neat, clean and clear!

I have no training in photography, graphic design, art - and that probably shows in my chops. But I do have fun playing, especially when my mind works and I can think of an idea


My muddy 2 cents worth
Comments: 1308
Contest Entries: 62
Trust Yourself - you know more than you think you do!

AzureSky
Independents
3/22/2012 8:27:56 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/22/2012 7:33:46 PM, diamonds said:
I like to think of the work of BobRafto as art actually - I find it amazing.

Just cutting and copying and making funny pic's though the photoshop type medium is an art form I guess, but I am not sure I would classify it as art.

If you were to take your own photographs and then manipulate them, again, I would classify that as an art form.

Art is always a percieved thing isn't it? I went to a small exhibition last weekend, of a photographic artist. I really did not like any of his work but most others there loved nearly all that he submitted.

But here I love looking and reviewing at the pic's that people submit, I do love to see a picture that is neat, clean and clear!

I have no training in photography, graphic design, art - and that probably shows in my chops. But I do have fun playing, especially when my mind works and I can think of an idea


My muddy 2 cents worth



I used to go to private views of art exhibitions and in some cases I feel it was a case of the Emperor's New clothes!

You don't need training to be creative and have great ideas. Just do your own thing. I find my training hampers free expression.

When you do work for print any mistake is multiplied by the thousand so you have to be very disciplined.

I would love to be able to do wild free images. You do what you enjoy diamond. You will find what suits you personally.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

MiniS
Democrats
3/22/2012 8:46:20 PM


Status: Hall Monitor
Perhaps there should have been a FN contest for "in the style of Juan Gris" to celebrate the 125th anniversary of his birth - not a chopping of one of his works, but a creation of their own. People would have had to try a different style of art in order to enter.
Comments: 226
Contest Entries: 34

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/23/2012 6:46:06 AM


Status: Attorney General

On 3/22/2012 8:46:20 PM, MiniS said:
Perhaps there should have been a FN contest for "in the style of Juan Gris" to celebrate the 125th anniversary of his birth - not a chopping of one of his works, but a creation of their own. People would have had to try a different style of art in order to enter.



This idea, I like. I would end up having to learn a ton to put forth a competent entry, but the trial and error and massive screw ups would be more than worth it.

As one goes through the artistic journey and learns to create art, they tend to imitate the styles of previous and contemporary artists along the way. Never was there a better example of this that with Gris, so using him for this contest would be about perfect.

Great suggestion (which in the end, should I find myself able to enter, would probably kick my ss, but it would be worth every moment of the beating to come of it with something I wouldn't be embarrassed to enter, I think. Bravo, and gracias...Viva MiniS...Je T'aime...if any of that is misspelled or conjugated incorrectly, sorry, my Franglish is a little rusty.)

Also, I didn't know about his illustration work until just now, so there are a few different ways to go with this...really great suggestion...

[Edited by User on 3/23/2012 6:45:11 AM]
Comments: 847
Contest Entries: 271
War is over, if you want it


You must log in to comment!

home - register - login - contests - galleries - FAQ - terms of service - tutorials - guidelines - privacy - copyright - contact - ^top

Little Girl Hillary Clinton with Bill the Pigeon Hollywood Budget Cuts Bald  Kevin Spacey with Women's Underwear Michelle Obama Facelift Message Sea Horse Jet Ski

2020, Freaking News. Code by Worth1000. Page generated at 2/28/2020 3:08:35 AM in 0.141 seconds.