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macwithfries
Independents
3/20/2012 8:54:59 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/20/2012 8:20:14 AM, kennyb said:

I think either system can lead to incentive or strategic voting. What I mean by that is let's say that you and I are friends and you have "AWESOME KARMA"...I enter a piece/chop into one of the contests and I let you know that I did and which one it is (phone call, e-mail, etc)...you give me a good vote because I am your friend. Now because your Karma is so high, it is as though a bunch of people voted my piece/chop awesome...which if repeated with a couple of people with good karma totally shifts the balance of the overall how the crowd voted, which then in turn affects the overall karma of everyone that voted.



With all systems that involve "humans" voting there will always be "human nature" involved at times.

But do know that there's also a few staff behind the scenes who can "sniff out human nature anomalies" such as the type mentioned above

Most that would attempt that are noobs with no karma anyway. And anything beyond that is swiftly "eliminated".

The karma system does it's job...the people behind the scenes make sure that it's not "abused" by the human nature element.






Comments: 5844
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NewsMaster
Independents
3/20/2012 11:44:29 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Mac said it perfectly!
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

NewsMaster
Independents
3/20/2012 11:45:13 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Azure, I see you have successfully gained karma in the "green" contest. Congrats!
Comments: 99153
Contest Entries: 14
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

AzureSky
Independents
3/20/2012 2:51:47 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/20/2012 11:45:13 AM, NewsMaster said:
Azure, I see you have successfully gained karma in the "green" contest. Congrats!



Thank you Vlad, I will go and admire my star ...
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/20/2012 5:40:48 PM


Status: Attorney General
I don't vote here, or anywhere else, as I have become a bit jaded about the voting process elsewhere, but I think the voting here is fairly decent, all things considered.

Then again, I seem to get stomped in every contest I enter, so I have no idea why I think this, but I've only once thought that one of the top entries didn't deserve to be there in my limited time here.

(I personally don't like the whole caricature thing, and that seems to be what gets the higher votes here...it's cool, though...if that's what most people like, then that's the sort of thing they'll like. I'm not trying to denigrate anyone who makes that sort of thing, it just isn't my thing. So, I know going in that if there are any of those, and they're well done, I have no chance against them...once you resign yourself to this, the pill is much easier to swallow. Plus, all my last place entries get jury picks, so I feel like I'm in the lead for the Miss Congeniality Prize...I hope it's a good one this year.)
Comments: 847
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War is over, if you want it

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/20/2012 6:05:40 PM


Status: Student Council

On 3/20/2012 5:40:48 PM, Malcolmxy said:
I don't vote here, or anywhere else, as I have become a bit jaded about the voting process elsewhere, but I think the voting here is fairly decent, all things considered.

Then again, I seem to get stomped in every contest I enter, so I have no idea why I think this, but I've only once thought that one of the top entries didn't deserve to be there in my limited time here.

(I personally don't like the whole caricature thing, and that seems to be what gets the higher votes here...it's cool, though...if that's what most people like, then that's the sort of thing they'll like. I'm not trying to denigrate anyone who makes that sort of thing, it just isn't my thing. So, I know going in that if there are any of those, and they're well done, I have no chance against them...once you resign yourself to this, the pill is much easier to swallow. Plus, all my last place entries get jury picks, so I feel like I'm in the lead for the Miss Congeniality Prize...I hope it's a good one this year.)



in my humble opinion, in my 15min here, I have seen a number of top picks with obvious technical issues. Maybe I look too hard. But I do my damndest to make sure it is clean art, then score on subject and so on. Some seem to vote emotionally, and after all this is a PS site. There are basic criteria that some ignore. Again, in my humble opinion. I can not score 7 on a piece that could have cleaner clipping paths, and hidden the signs of manipulation better, or even at all.

Also there is such a thing as too much. Elegance in the idea, and execution doesn't seem to really impress the masses I have come to learn. Less is more in most cases, unless your trying to win I suppose.

I agree on the caricature part. But I have used the extreme talent of some of those folks to try and break my own mold a little.I try and use some of the techniques and employ them in my work.



Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/20/2012 6:30:24 PM


Status: Attorney General
See, I think that the cleanliness of the pic, given that this is all throwaway "art" at best, is about the least of the things that matter.

Picasso could paint the most intricate technical pieces, but in the end, he transformed painting into a new art form and his work was far from "clean".

True art is designed to evoke an emotional response from the person viewing that art, and "ooh...that's a technically perfect piece" doesn't, in my opinion, qualify as an emotional response.

The backgrounds in the original Star Wars trilogy (since that is where photoshop comes from) were all hand painted and they look incredibly real...and, they are about the furthest thing from art I can possibly imagine.

They are technically stunning, but I don't think there is a single person out in the world who would mistake them for art.

Don't get me wrong. Technical ability, insomuch as the lack of said ability really takes away from the piece, is necessary, but beyond that, these things are looked at, momentarily enjoyed, and then forgotten about seconds later.

Get a laugh, make someone happy, make them weep, etc. At that point, you've got art. Adjusting the hue of individual pixels doesn't add anything to that. It just takes time.
Comments: 847
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War is over, if you want it

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/20/2012 8:34:40 PM


Status: Student Council

On 3/20/2012 6:30:24 PM, Malcolmxy said:
See, I think that the cleanliness of the pic, given that this is all throwaway "art" at best, is about the least of the things that matter.

Picasso could paint the most intricate technical pieces, but in the end, he transformed painting into a new art form and his work was far from "clean".

True art is designed to evoke an emotional response from the person viewing that art, and "ooh...that's a technically perfect piece" doesn't, in my opinion, qualify as an emotional response.

The backgrounds in the original Star Wars trilogy (since that is where photoshop comes from) were all hand painted and they look incredibly real...and, they are about the furthest thing from art I can possibly imagine.

They are technically stunning, but I don't think there is a single person out in the world who would mistake them for art.

Don't get me wrong. Technical ability, insomuch as the lack of said ability really takes away from the piece, is necessary, but beyond that, these things are looked at, momentarily enjoyed, and then forgotten about seconds later.

Get a laugh, make someone happy, make them weep, etc. At that point, you've got art. Adjusting the hue of individual pixels doesn't add anything to that. It just takes time.



I supposed if I lacked the care and/or ability to produce quality I too may say that it is just "throwaway" art, least of all deserving attention to detail. Fact is, some people here make a good living doing this. No, they are not going to the MOMA, but they do pay the bills.

I take pride in what I do, and do the best I can, from A to Z. I don't cobble something together and hope they get the point because it isn't going to hang in a gallery. The point is I made it and if it has my name on it, it better be good.

Further more, they are portfolio pieces that exhibit everything I am talking about to the kinds of people who DO care. And pay good money to those who deserve it.

There are meme forums all over the internet where technical ability is not required. This isn't one of them that I can see.

We are clearly from two different worlds. This type of thing, this "throwaway art", is what I do for a living. It makes me happy to produce quality, both in concept and completion. In the circles that I follow, it is deadly serious. Clearly not to everyone, but to some. And I would bet to those who's rank on this site is significant.
Comments: 235
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kennyb
Independents
3/20/2012 8:42:58 PM


Status: Wal Mart Greeter
I couldn't agree with you more DunceCap...I take a lot of pride in what I do and quality matters in everything I do...include what I do for the contest here on FreakingNews.com.

I don't make money do these contest (not real money) but I do make a living in graphic design, which definitely involves a lot of Photoshop and the little details like making it smooth and sharp matter very much, and yes I make a good living off of it.
Comments: 74
Contest Entries: 11

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/20/2012 8:51:11 PM


Status: Attorney General

On 3/20/2012 8:34:40 PM, TheDunceCap said:

On 3/20/2012 6:30:24 PM, Malcolmxy said:
See, I think that the cleanliness of the pic, given that this is all throwaway "art" at best, is about the least of the things that matter.

Picasso could paint the most intricate technical pieces, but in the end, he transformed painting into a new art form and his work was far from "clean".

True art is designed to evoke an emotional response from the person viewing that art, and "ooh...that's a technically perfect piece" doesn't, in my opinion, qualify as an emotional response.

The backgrounds in the original Star Wars trilogy (since that is where photoshop comes from) were all hand painted and they look incredibly real...and, they are about the furthest thing from art I can possibly imagine.

They are technically stunning, but I don't think there is a single person out in the world who would mistake them for art.

Don't get me wrong. Technical ability, insomuch as the lack of said ability really takes away from the piece, is necessary, but beyond that, these things are looked at, momentarily enjoyed, and then forgotten about seconds later.

Get a laugh, make someone happy, make them weep, etc. At that point, you've got art. Adjusting the hue of individual pixels doesn't add anything to that. It just takes time.



I supposed if I lacked the care and/or ability to produce quality I too may say that it is just "throwaway" art, least of all deserving attention to detail. Fact is, some people here make a good living doing this. No, they are not going to the MOMA, but they do pay the bills.

I take pride in what I do, and do the best I can, from A to Z. I don't cobble something together and hope they get the point because it isn't going to hang in a gallery. The point is I made it and if it has my name on it, it better be good.

Further more, they are portfolio pieces that exhibit everything I am talking about to the kinds of people who DO care. And pay good money to those who deserve it.

There are meme forums all over the internet where technical ability is not required. This isn't one of them that I can see.

We are clearly from two different worlds. This type of thing, this "throwaway art", is what I do for a living. It makes me happy to produce quality, both in concept and completion. In the circles that I follow, it is deadly serious. Clearly not to everyone, but to some. And I would bet to those who's rank on this site is significant.



Hey, I love it, too, but if this is art, it is in an incredibly stale phase. The photo manipulation I most consider art was made by the person who got me into doing this (and, seriously, it's like an addiction). My technical skills have long since surpassed his, but I still consider what he does more of an art than anything I do.

Guys make a living selling caricatures of you and your girlfriend at the beach. That don't make it art, but I suppose it's a livin'.

(and, I ain't gone and looked at what anyone in this thread, specifically, is doin', so maybe what some of you do does rise to the level of art. or, maybe I'm just a dude on an internet forum poppin' off his mouth who has no clue what he's talkin' about. Also, there are some pieces I've made where a perfection of the technical aspects were important to sell the piece. I can certainly do it, in most cases, but it ain't always necessary, or even desirable. Sometimes it's just masturbation...or, so I think...and, again, what the heck do I know?)
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War is over, if you want it

Malcolmxy
Independents
3/20/2012 9:09:41 PM


Status: Attorney General


This is a piece by Noma Bar. He's a pretty famous graphic designer and someone who uses both positive and negative space in his compositions. I think this is art. Noma wouldn't do well on this site. There's certainly nothing technically wrong with his work, and I'm pretty sure this was made with a graphics program like photoshop, so what's the issue? Too simple? I disagree. I think the thought that went into conceiving this piece was incredibly intricate. So, why would this person who I'm pretty sure has been showcased at MoMA do so poorly here (and, you know he would)?

If someone wants something that looks real, they can take an actual photograph. If they want a caricature, they can go to the beach and have a guy draw it for them at a cost of $5. This software is capable of a lot of stuff, but people seem stuck on the 'fantasy' scenes or the caricatures.

It's boring, redundant, and it's art like paint by numbers is art.

[Edited by User on 3/21/2012 12:07:02 AM]
Comments: 847
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War is over, if you want it

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/20/2012 10:36:18 PM


Status: Student Council

On 3/20/2012 9:09:41 PM, Malcolmxy said:


This is a piece by Noma Bar. He's a pretty famous graphic designer and someone who uses both positive and negative space in his compositions. I think this is art. Noma wouldn't do well on this site. There's certainly nothing technically wrong with his work, and I'm pretty sure this was made with a graphics program like photoshop, so what's the issue? Too simple? I disagree. I think the thought that went into conceiving this piece was incredibly intricate. So, why would this person who I'm pretty sure has been showcased at MoMA do so poorly here (and, you know he would)?

If someone wants something that looks real, they can take an actual photograph. If they want a caricature, they can go to the beach and have a guy draw it for them at a cost of $5. This software is capable of a lot of stuff, but people seem stuck on the 'fantasy' scenes or the caricatures.

It's boring, redundant, and it's art like paint by numbers is art.

[Edited by User on 3/20/2012 10:14:18 PM]



This is about the scoring. Not art.

When I said, "art" I was using an industry term. When I would place a graphic, hand made by an illustrator in one of the text books I worked on, we call it art. For the sake of argument.

You wouldn't hire a plumber to make tech-art or color-art for a book. I would hire an illustrator, or "artist".

Besides, this isn't about art. This is about taking pride in what you do, and if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well. In that thinking, I will not score anyone over a 4 if they are lacking in basic, obvious things. That's all. For example, great concept but still has white clipping lines, or blending that looks rushed, four. Not one higher. Look in the help section under scoring.

Honestly I could care less about the art debate. I like doing these things, I enjoy the challenge, I enjoy getting better and learning new things. When I hit submit, I know it's technically clean.

This isn't a meme site. It's a PS site, and those things matter. Or should anyway.

People winning awards should have the cleanest work up. Then you can split hairs over other things. I can't understand how people vote for something visually inferior. This is after all the place to bring your A game.

Why go half-cheek?

Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/20/2012 10:38:47 PM


Status: Student Council

On 3/20/2012 8:42:58 PM, kennyb said:
I couldn't agree with you more DunceCap...I take a lot of pride in what I do and quality matters in everything I do...include what I do for the contest here on FreakingNews.com.

I don't make money do these contest (not real money) but I do make a living in graphic design, which definitely involves a lot of Photoshop and the little details like making it smooth and sharp matter very much, and yes I make a good living off of it.



F'n-A Right! EXACTLY. This thread has gone off topic. Sorry...

Comments: 235
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AzureSky
Independents
3/21/2012 6:23:09 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
Well, I lost karma on the Mac contest. Ce' la vie. My opinions didn't match the other votes.
Regarding the question of art I am going to start a new thread.
Comments: 12495
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Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Anniesmum
Independents
3/21/2012 8:50:39 AM
Status: Flori-duh Voter
OK I am a real beginner who has actually now given up, I cant get things blended in well enough or what ever and I have asked for comments on entries but all I've got is Yea or a smiley face then finished last, It would have been good if someone had said you need to have another go at ..... as is looks .....
Anyway that aside some where on this topic I saw 2 words but can't find them now one was Magna the other I think started with F and no it was not a swear word can the person who mentioned them please tell me what they are.
thanks
Comments: 196
Contest Entries: 16

Anniesmum
Independents
3/21/2012 9:03:19 AM
Status: Flori-duh Voter
If we are permitted to discuss chops after the contest could some one tell me if they agree with me on this in this contest http://www.freakingnews.com/Fallen-Waiter-Pictures--3309.asp I voted and remember roughly how I voted, I noticed that the picture that came 1st and the one that came 4th were by the same person, the reason was that both pictures had the hands badly cut out the thumb was cut down low and the fingers were partly missing at the ends and because of that I voted low on both those entries and not because I had an entry in but because It distorted the hands and they looked very flat but it seems no one else saw the hands as they came in 1st and 4th.
I also noticed a while back a trend that if you included the US president in your chop you got into the top 4 even if you had barely used the source picture or if it was badly cut and fuzzy round the edges. Had others spotted this?
Comments: 196
Contest Entries: 16

news1st
Independents
3/21/2012 9:45:50 AM
Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/21/2012 9:03:19 AM, Anniesmum said:
If we are permitted to discuss chops after the contest could some one tell me if they agree with me on this in this contest http://www.freakingnews.com/Fallen-Waiter-Pictures--3309.asp I voted and remember roughly how I voted, I noticed that the picture that came 1st and the one that came 4th were by the same person, the reason was that both pictures had the hands badly cut out the thumb was cut down low and the fingers were partly missing at the ends and because of that I voted low on both those entries and not because I had an entry in but because It distorted the hands and they looked very flat but it seems no one else saw the hands as they came in 1st and 4th.
I also noticed a while back a trend that if you included the US president in your chop you got into the top 4 even if you had barely used the source picture or if it was badly cut and fuzzy round the edges. Had others spotted this?




I can only suggest that You start with High Resolution Source Material. Go to the 1024x768 Pictures and Larger when using Google Images or Other Source Material. Also when Making a Selection to Cut-Out your chosen Object. Cut the Item Out with No Feathering on Your Selection Tool (Set to 0) and Cut the Item Out by Using the Expand or Contract Command in the Selection Menu, and Reduce the Item by 1 or 2 Pixels. No One will know what is missing. You can Always Feather the Edges of the Item Later with a Channel Mask and a Little Gaussian Blurring.

Also Use Youtube Self Help Videos on Photoshop if You're Trying Something New. It will Help You find Your Way.

Take Care, Tracy Mapes
Comments: 1401
Contest Entries: 275

AzureSky
Independents
3/21/2012 11:23:49 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/21/2012 8:50:39 AM, Anniesmum said:
OK I am a real beginner who has actually now given up, I cant get things blended in well enough or what ever and I have asked for comments on entries but all I've got is Yea or a smiley face then finished last, It would have been good if someone had said you need to have another go at ..... as is looks .....
Anyway that aside some where on this topic I saw 2 words but can't find them now one was Magna the other I think started with F and no it was not a swear word can the person who mentioned them please tell me what they are.
thanks



Are you entering the apprentice or advanced contests? If you are a beginner I don't think you would stand a chance in the advanced contests.

The best way to proceed is to keep entering, when you become a regular, people will be more likely to comment.

I joined FN in January 2005 but haven't got many trophies. I keep at it because I learn from making chops.

No point giving up at the first hurdle. The more you do, the better you will get.

A chop with a great idea and immediate impact will get a higher vote even with errors, than one that is neat and tidy but boring.

Why not go through the tutorials available here and online?
Concentrate on improving your technique for now.

Many of us work for years to get a gold trophy. Be happy when you get a gold star from a juror who will be an expert who has experience.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Anniesmum
Independents
3/21/2012 7:15:31 PM
Status: Flori-duh Voter
Thank you News1st and Azure Sky I have entered a couple of the advanced contents but only because of the subject and while I did give them my best shot it was only the fact that I liked the subject that I entered them, and I fully expected to come in last, generally I entered the apprentice section, when I had plenty of time to put into my entry. You have both suggested a few things and I will have a go using them Thanks
Comments: 196
Contest Entries: 16

AzureSky
Independents
3/21/2012 7:38:39 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/21/2012 7:15:31 PM, Anniesmum said:
Thank you News1st and Azure Sky I have entered a couple of the advanced contents but only because of the subject and while I did give them my best shot it was only the fact that I liked the subject that I entered them, and I fully expected to come in last, generally I entered the apprentice section, when I had plenty of time to put into my entry. You have both suggested a few things and I will have a go using them Thanks



If you have any questions about technique there are lots of people here who will be happy to help. ...

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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