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FloridaGator
3/4/2012 7:37:58 AM
Status: Wal Mart Greeter
Critiques

I have noticed in my short stay here that there isn't much constructive feedback that users leave in entry comments. It is mostly, "good job" and "funny!" type of stuff. Am I wrong about this? Why do people not leave feedback that can help others improve? Are we not supposed to leave feedback as how to improve their image and skills?
Comments: 57
Contest Entries: 10
HoHouse
Republicans
3/4/2012 9:08:26 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
The question is really? What programs are you using? Hard to tell?
When you critique a chop, what if that's the best they can do, if they are using a different program then you. What if their monitor is different and colors look different. To many variables in the programs we use. Plus we get paid to chat, just keeps it fun.
Comments: 4128
Contest Entries: 7091
HoHouse

Disasterman111
Democrats
3/4/2012 10:02:48 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/4/2012 7:37:58 AM, FloridaGator said:
I have noticed in my short stay here that there isn't much constructive feedback that users leave in entry comments. It is mostly, "good job" and "funny!" type of stuff. Am I wrong about this? Why do people not leave feedback that can help others improve? Are we not supposed to leave feedback as how to improve their image and skills?



Maybe you should ask a specific question in your comments such as how would I improve the lighting or the color on this image, or how do I find a better source image etc. There are a lot of artists here that would be happy to help if they knew how to overcome a specific problem an artist has difficulty with. You may also want to ask questions in our Facebook group, there are a lot of great artists there who are more then happy to help & we often find tutorials posted there to address peoples questions.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/32104248552/
Comments: 5217
Contest Entries: 109
If it was easy anyone could do it!

Laredog
Independents
3/4/2012 11:15:45 AM


Status: Speech Writer
I too noticed the same thing Gator, but then I don't think the people who comment all the time want to hurt any feelings. (Even if it says free to critique). The people here and on FB have been very kind and friendly.
I tried to participate on another web site before, and the people were cold and harsh. They made it clear novices were not welcome. I like it much better here.
But, if it's great help ya need... don't look at me. I still pretty much suck at it. lol
Comments: 239
Contest Entries: 111
Laredog "Gone Fishing"

FloridaGator
Republicans
3/4/2012 11:22:06 AM
Status: Wal Mart Greeter
I am not looking for feedback on my entries. I am more getting a feel for what kind of feedback I should give to others. I posted this because I have been giving my honest opinion about what I see wrong with entries to help people improve in future contests. I will stop as I see that constructive feedback is frowned upon. So my last question is should I go with "haha" or "funny"?
Comments: 57
Contest Entries: 10

Chili
Independents
3/4/2012 12:49:02 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/4/2012 11:22:06 AM, FloridaGator said:
I am not looking for feedback on my entries. I am more getting a feel for what kind of feedback I should give to others. I posted this because I have been giving my honest opinion about what I see wrong with entries to help people improve in future contests. I will stop as I see that constructive feedback is frowned upon. So my last question is should I go with "haha" or "funny"?



I would keep doing as you are doing when commenting F.G. But remember, that just because its your own viewpoint, doesn't mean that its the best viewpoint in what you are criticizing on . That person might win in the top 4 so what you are saying might not be the best advise . I would say in a comment , Hey maybe you can try doing this or that to improve your chop & explain in detail what you mean. I personally use CS5 Extended but other people on here might use other versions of photoshop or other photo software !!!!
Comments: 1696
Contest Entries: 327
Truly great madness can not be achieved without using Photoshop ;-)

Wiz
Independents
3/4/2012 5:17:17 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
An answer to your 'Critique' question can be found on the FN 'Help' page, in short it states...

-'While we encourage you to voice your opinions, note that we're hypersensitive to people deliberately posting comments that are wasteful or have the potential to start a flame war...

... Purely negative feedback is inappropriate and will not be tolerated. Users here like advise 'as long as they have requested it'

(That last bit is a VERY Important consideration when you're tempted to offer your critique)

So unless someone actually asks for help it's wiser to just type up "Good Job' 'Funny' etc. Usually it's the Noobs that ask for a critique, and most times they get good advice from some of the older hands around here.

It's also a good idea to be self critical, and re-examine any of your entries that scored lower than you expected. Just ask yourself why that happened, and you're halfway to improving your next one!

Sometimes it's the 'Idea', and sometimes it could have been better executed, and you were just outgunned by the contest gong winners. Study those 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 'Woodies' closely and see why they Won and didn't need any critiques... they are Simply Very Good!

Hope this helps.

Wiz
Comments: 221
Contest Entries: 430

FloridaGator
Republicans
3/4/2012 5:42:13 PM
Status: Wal Mart Greeter
I have decided on the comment I will use from this point forward when "critiquing' an image....Splendid chopping!
Comments: 57
Contest Entries: 10

Wiz
Independents
3/4/2012 6:18:12 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/4/2012 5:42:13 PM, FloridaGator said:
I have decided on the comment I will use from this point forward when "critiquing' an image....Splendid chopping!



LOL! You Floridians are famous for your pragmatism!

Wiz

Comments: 221
Contest Entries: 430

Kellie
Independents
3/4/2012 8:24:12 PM
Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/4/2012 5:42:13 PM, FloridaGator said:
I have decided on the comment I will use from this point forward when "critiquing' an image....Splendid chopping!


...on every entry in the WIP contest!
Thatsa freaking joke, insult to the creators of the images also, considering this thread.
You just look silly LoL

Comments: 16532
Contest Entries: 291

FloridaGator
Republicans
3/4/2012 8:33:00 PM
Status: Wal Mart Greeter

On 3/4/2012 8:24:12 PM, Kellie said:

On 3/4/2012 5:42:13 PM, FloridaGator said:
I have decided on the comment I will use from this point forward when "critiquing' an image....Splendid chopping!


...on every entry in the WIP contest!
Thatsa freaking joke, insult to the creators of the images also, considering this thread.
You just look silly LoL




I meant no harm. I posted a comment on all but one entry because they were all top notch jobs in my opinion and thought I should finish it off as to not insult the last entry I didn't originally comment on. I have edited my comments to keep things even more PC. I apologize for anyone I insulted.

[Edited by User on 3/4/2012 8:42:56 PM]
Comments: 57
Contest Entries: 10

Kellie
Independents
3/4/2012 11:06:00 PM
Status: Commander in Chief
Comments: 16532
Contest Entries: 291

MiniS
Democrats
3/4/2012 11:08:46 PM


Status: Hall Monitor
I'm in the "beginners" category and certainly appreciate any comments that can help me to improve. These can be comments on good features (it helps to know what you are doing well) in addition to things that need to be improved. And even better is some help on how to achieve that improvement.
Comments: 226
Contest Entries: 34

AzureSky
Independents
3/6/2012 5:51:36 AM


Status: Commander in Chief
First of all take note of who leaves a comment. If you get one from an experienced chopper with a truck load of Trophies, treasure it. They really know what they are talking about.

The great thing about FN is you are unlikely to get nit picking silly comments.

On the whole I avoid giving critiques unless something is glaringly obvious and there is time for the chopper to put the problem right before voting starts.

Negativity and denting people's confidence is not what FN is about.

The great choppers here lead by example. If you want advice, post your query here, I know you will get help.

I have put plenty of turkeys on here and learned from them. If you can't do something keep trying until you can. It takes time and a lot of effort.

I have CS3 and Topaz, there are so many possibilities with these programmes, even now I feel as if I am just scratching the surface.

The apprentices are most likely to appreciate constructive advice. Many of them may be novices who want to improve their skills.

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Disasterman111
Democrats
3/6/2012 2:35:05 PM


Status: Commander in Chief
I'm careful about posting negative comments on an entry as we have a lot of artists with different skill levels. What might appear as a weakness in a particular chop can often be an improvement over the artists previous entries & shows that they are progressing as time goes on.

There is nothing that takes the wind out of someones sails like a bad comment on what the artist may feel is the best image they have done so far.... they should be encouraged to do better, rather then condemned for trying to learn.

Nobody becomes an expert Photo-chopper overnight, its a long process where people get better by making mistakes. MiniS and AzureSky bring up a very good point, if you are going to comment on a problem with an image, you should also be willing to offer a solution.

[Edited by User on 3/6/2012 2:42:43 PM]
Comments: 5217
Contest Entries: 109
If it was easy anyone could do it!

AzureSky
Independents
3/7/2012 7:08:33 PM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/6/2012 2:35:05 PM, Disasterman111 said:
I'm careful about posting negative comments on an entry as we have a lot of artists with different skill levels. What might appear as a weakness in a particular chop can often be an improvement over the artists previous entries & shows that they are progressing as time goes on.

There is nothing that takes the wind out of someones sails like a bad comment on what the artist may feel is the best image they have done so far.... they should be encouraged to do better, rather then condemned for trying to learn.

Nobody becomes an expert Photo-chopper overnight, its a long process where people get better by making mistakes. MiniS and AzureSky bring up a very good point, if you are going to comment on a problem with an image, you should also be willing to offer a solution.

[Edited by User on 3/6/2012 2:42:43 PM]



I agree with you Disaster man, negative spiteful remarks are soul destroying and unnecessary. If I saw one I would alert a moderator.

Since Floridagator said he would like to see some constructive advice, I have started making comments where there is something I feel I can help with, in some cases, I am not sure how to remedy something and say so in the hope an expert will offer advice.

I try to stick to things I actually know something about, such as blending and sizing. I often see faces that don't fit and have the foreheads too short or too big (not counting caricatures)

My other skill is typography, as I have worked in the print business for years, so maybe I will try and help people with that
A big challenge for me is mastering hair, it is still a struggle for to do.

The standard here is steadily rising, in fact every week it just gets better and better. I am lost in admiration at the sheer brilliance of the top choppers.

I have the greatest respect for the new people who are working so hard to improve. It is great to watch their progress. We have some great new raw talent here that just needs more experience.
Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/9/2012 11:17:26 PM


Status: Student Council
Negative points are usually the only part of a critique. Other wise it wouldn't be called a critique.

I just started here, and as such just jumped in. I can see a whole spectrum of talent. I see those who work in the field and those who dabble. Some are more prepared for an honest crit. Some would probably curl in a ball and cry.

In my opinion the little button you check for a crit was put there for a reason. Maybe not.

If you are willing to put your work up against some of the serious talent here, you should be ready for a crit.

In school we made people cry, not because of the comments of the critique, but the vulnerable nature of the person. Art is a tough subjective world. As such, I usually keep critique to a technical level. I wouldn't call someones hard work ugly for instance, but would suggest more attention to detail, or something along those lines.

Like I said, if you put your work up, consider it finished. If you have obvious faults, prepare for a crit. At least from me.

And I can see that some do not appreciate it. For those I would suggest you not check the critique button before posting.
Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/9/2012 11:21:26 PM


Status: Student Council
After reading this, I should have held my comment. I guess this isn't the place for constructive crit.

I don't get it, but we can't go around hurting other people's feeling no matter how unavoidable that seems to be.

I will keep it to , "hahaha" and "awww".

You should consider removing the critique option before posting.


On 3/4/2012 5:17:17 PM, Wiz said:
An answer to your 'Critique' question can be found on the FN 'Help' page, in short it states...

-'While we encourage you to voice your opinions, note that we're hypersensitive to people deliberately posting comments that are wasteful or have the potential to start a flame war...

... Purely negative feedback is inappropriate and will not be tolerated. Users here like advise 'as long as they have requested it'

(That last bit is a VERY Important consideration when you're tempted to offer your critique)

So unless someone actually asks for help it's wiser to just type up "Good Job' 'Funny' etc. Usually it's the Noobs that ask for a critique, and most times they get good advice from some of the older hands around here.

It's also a good idea to be self critical, and re-examine any of your entries that scored lower than you expected. Just ask yourself why that happened, and you're halfway to improving your next one!

Sometimes it's the 'Idea', and sometimes it could have been better executed, and you were just outgunned by the contest gong winners. Study those 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 'Woodies' closely and see why they Won and didn't need any critiques... they are Simply Very Good!

Hope this helps.

Wiz



Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

Laredog
Independents
3/10/2012 12:06:08 AM


Status: Speech Writer
I think there is a big difference between critical and critique. I want to be critiqued by those who are better and can help me, as DisasterMan has in the past. Always looking for helpful tips (like a couple I got from Sunshin3). But just being critical, because you don't like it.... I am not a huge fan of some of these "cluttered" busy pieces, but they do seem to win. It's up to the judges with clout here.
But taste does seem to be a part of it. I got one critique that my backgroud was too "blurred". Didn't make much sense, since as a professional photog I could make the background as blurred or in focus as I wanted (by camera settings).
I am always looking for help and tips since I'm a photographer, not pro Photoshopping Chopper.
Comments: 239
Contest Entries: 111
Laredog "Gone Fishing"

AzureSky
Independents
3/10/2012 1:30:40 AM


Status: Commander in Chief

On 3/9/2012 11:17:26 PM, TheDunceCap said:
Negative points are usually the only part of a critique. Other wise it wouldn't be called a critique.

And I can see that some do not appreciate it. For those I would suggest you not check the critique button before posting.



I disagree that negative points are the only part of a critique.
I have had many critiques in my time both at Art School, in my working life and on here.

I feel one should only mention an error if you are able to give constructive advice to help.

When an entry is from a person who clearly hasn't a clue, and is probably posting for the first time, there isn't much point saying anything, as they probably won't understand what you are talking about.

It would need a long message to explain and the person might be put off entering again. Best to say something kind or stay quiet.
I have seen how well people can progress by studying the good entries. It takes time.

If there is an error on an otherwise good chop then by all means give CONSTRUCTIVE advice, providing you know what you are talking about. Critiques are not about your personal likes and dislikes of a particular style. Or if you don't like the colours.

Nitpicking is not necessary. Please don't make humiliating remarks as you don't know who the author is. Or, as Disasterman said, what stage they are at. We all make mistakes, be they technical, not understanding the contest directions, or dull choice of subject.

Few of the members are experts in everything. Some have their own specialities. Others cover a wider range and are good at what they do. A few are absolutely brilliant, producing work of a standard we can aspire to.

Comments: 12495
Contest Entries: 1352
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

TheDunceCap
Independents
3/10/2012 1:52:32 AM


Status: Student Council
Bottom line (for me), the new guy, is that there are to many gray areas here.

From what I gather there are those who are legends, and do not need critique, and padawan learners who will not understand or become upset.

I spent over an hour on the "Animal" contest the other day making paragraph comments. After reading the user "Wiz" comment what I took away was that if the person asks then give. Other than that just say, "nice" even if it isn't.

I will not ruffle any feathers and keep it nice-nice.

After all there's probably other places on the internet where it swings the other way and people who don't have formal training are talking out of their, A*s. So in that respect I can understand how things can get out of control and best practice is to play it safe.
Comments: 235
Contest Entries: 22

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